Quote - Again! Help Please......

[Festerfly]

Yes i know there have been a lot of questions recently asking for advice on what to quote but i thought i would just add to the number?!?!?!?

Basically i have been asked to re-wire a kitchen for someone and although the practical side is not new to me, the pricing for this type of work is..

Basically here is how it looks so far:

Current kitchen has 3xdouble sockets and 2x lighting circuits. New plans (inc new kitchen)require the following.

1) Split exisiting Ring and install 5x Double Sockets. Surface mounted behind cabinets but chased into wall just prior to worktop height and then boxes sunk at or above 150mm from top of worktop. toal cabling req estimated 8-10 metres (large kitchen!) Walls to be covered by glass splashbacks once kitchen installed so no need to make good.

2) Take exisiting wall mounted light feed and remove exisiting luminaires (x2), crimp cable and extend behind wall cabinet location and locate for undercabinet lighting. (chase required for around 1Metre)

3) Extend exisiting fused spur for Cooker hood by 1.5m and chase into wall and socket.

4) Add 2x spurs from main ring for Fridge and dishwasher. Surface mount.

5) Run feed from exisiting ceiling luminaire(2M) and install new switch feed circuit to current wall mounted light switch location(4M) (and convert to 3 gang switch). Ceiiling is Lathe & Plaster so will require Carpet & floor boards up in above bedroom.

6) Run new Cooker power feed (cooker is rated at 15A) from D/B located at the other side of the house Will require lifting of landing Carpet & floorboards and cable run alongside new boiler in the kitchen due to solid oak flooring located in the main downstairs hallway and Kitchen. All surface mount once in kitchen and swithc fitted in adjoining cupboard (customer wants only sockets availble so all fused switches and such must be internal cupboard surface mounts) Total length of 6mm feed estimated to be 12-15 metres due to convoluted route.

7) Install RCB on RCD side of Hager D/B. Current RCD is rated at 63A. Should this be upped to 100A also as its also sharing this side of the board with the Electric Shower and a few other main circuits (ring etc)? RCB Rating to be 20A for the Cooker?

Im estimating around 1.5-2 days work for this as im on my own. Is this fair? Nad what sort of price do you think i would be looking at in labour terms?

All the current Bonding is suitable and the board was replaced fairly recently and hasa couple of spare slots on either side of the split etc.

Materials would be at cost as i dont beleive in marking them up. Pricing this job right is important as there could be lots more work available thought this client and referrals etc.

I would apprecaite and help you could give. I am located in Bedford if that makes any difference to pricing.

Cheers

Lee

i know its only been a couple of hours but wondered if anyone had any rough ideas.... got to knock this quote up for tonight,

ta

 

[Spudnik]

I think you may struggle to get all that done in 2 days.

Just price up the materials and then put your labour on top.

If you think it will take 2 days then allow for eg 3. If you do complete in 2 days then you have a few quid profit.

At a guess, i would price around 1000-1500.

But thats my idea of what i would want.

As for the glass splash backs, you need to avoid mounting the sockets in them.

No matter how careful it will always break when you try to tighten the plate back.

 

[Festerfly]

Thanks for that Jason.

So my initial estimates of £420inc materials were way under then!?!?!?!?

I based it on £160 per day (reasonable?) and materials were a smidgen under £100.

 

[ian.settle1]

Thanks for that Jason.

So my initial estimates of £420inc materials were way under then!?!?!?!?

I based it on £160 per day (reasonable?) and materials were a smidgen under £100.

Don't forget to add on the LABC charges as well because it is classified as a special location being a kitchen.

 

[Spudnik]

Thanks for that Jason.

So my initial estimates of £420inc materials were way under then!?!?!?!?

I based it on £160 per day (reasonable?) and materials were a smidgen under £100.

Sorry, just read your post properly

I would be looking around 800-900 inc materials etc.

And as Ian pointed out, this will need notifying and your insurance on it as well.

If its a Hager CU, i would install RCBO's on the main switch side to avoid over doing the RCD side with the shower etc.

All IMHO.

As for the referrals, then great if they do happen, however it rarely does so just price it for now and not for what might happen.

 

[dixon9]

Materials would be at cost as i dont beleive in marking them up. Pricing this job right is important as there could be lots more work available thought this client and referrals etc.

Why don´t you believe in marking up materials? They are at trade prices so that you can make a profit on them and still be competitive.

There are other, not so obvious costs incurred - petrol and time to pick the stuff and the van you have bought to transport them, all costs money for example.

 

[roukel01]

Never quite understood why someone in business wouldn't put a slight mark up on materials.

 

[Festerfly]

for me its early days at the moment, i am keen to get the work and be competitive too. maybe its a business failing of my own but at themoment, i will just supply at cost generally.

 

[The Truth]

agree with everything above..

£800 - 1000 is pretty standard fixed price for a kitchen refurb.

i always think i can do it in two days but there is always an untold amount of (NO SWEARING) about towards the end...finishing bits off, returning to the job again and again and again.

not marking up your materials is schoolboy error unless its familly! as said before me, the profit margin on materials is a very important chunk of profit that pays for backround expenses. And anyway even if you only mark up the materials by 15% ( which is still too low ) ....your still selling them cheaper than the client can buy them for?! dont feel immoral about it...

oh and i list every little detail on my quote...every socket , every spur..that way when things change or the client starts inventing things you were meant to have included... ..its all clear in black and white

if you really really want to charge the materials at cost and loose money then send the client to the wholesaler!! don't waste your diesel!

what? that wasn't a swear word... hello?

 

[Festerfly]

well went in with 3 days in the end.

And materials wise, i will consider it again on my next job. this is one of my first major jobs and i got this as a reccommedation from a friend anyway (who knows the client personally) so thought it wise to go in at cost on materials.

Im not against a little mark up but have seen some people doubling their cost price agin on some things which to meis jut plain wrong.?

 

[peteludman]

i always list what im doing exactly in the quote beacuse there is always changes in you want to charge for them they werent in the quote i want 200 a day for 8 hours but work for industrial most or the time

 

[castlon11]

How did it look in the end ??
Not being a pain but just worndering why they wanted surface mounted sockets on a glass spash back sounds odd to me.

 

[Festerfly]

Starts Monday so will wait and see. Might even get some pics.

 

[andekoch]

agree with everything above..

£800 - 1000 is pretty standard fixed price for a kitchen refurb.

i always think i can do it in two days but there is always an untold amount of (NO SWEARING) about towards the end...finishing bits off, returning to the job again and again and again.

not marking up your materials is schoolboy error unless its familly! as said before me, the profit margin on materials is a very important chunk of profit that pays for backround expenses. And anyway even if you only mark up the materials by 15% ( which is still too low ) ....your still selling them cheaper than the client can buy them for?! dont feel immoral about it...

oh and i list every little detail on my quote...every socket , every spur..that way when things change or the client starts inventing things you were meant to have included... ..its all clear in black and white

if you really really want to charge the materials at cost and loose money then send the client to the wholesaler!! don't waste your diesel!

what? that wasn't a swear word... hello?

Where do you buy then that you get material at lower than the customer can. I find that most can get at the same price as me now adays esp as the suppliers QVS, TLC etc dont offer a better price to the trade and if they do it is not much more than 5% and only on some items.

cheers

 

[Spudnik]

There really isnt any need to add profit to materials if you price the labour correctly.

 

[The Truth]

Where do you buy then that you get material at lower than the customer can. I find that most can get at the same price as me now adays esp as the suppliers QVS, TLC etc dont offer a better price to the trade and if they do it is not much more than 5% and only on some items.

cheers

the difference in costs has shrunk in the last few years admitedly especially with small high volume items. Im still marking up 20% regardless while i'm the supplier.

 

[sparks1234]

There really isnt any need to add profit to materials if you price the labour correctly.

Thats debatable depending on how you cost the works.
Personally I add the materials up then add a percentage, for 2 reasons, the first is you cannot think of everything you need, there are always bits and pieces that come out the back of the van which have been paid for somewhere along the line and also the percentage also gives you your guarantee money, so if something fails, you have to return to replace it, the materials are replaced free of charge by the suppliers but its your time that you get nothing for. i then add on my labour charge as I see fit for the job.
Saying that others allow for that in their labour charge. Horses for courses

Where do you buy then that you get material at lower than the customer can. I find that most can get at the same price as me now adays esp as the suppliers QVS, TLC etc dont offer a better price to the trade and if they do it is not much more than 5% and only on some items.

cheers

I would still say I get materials quite a lot cheaper than the general public can if you sort the wholesaler out properly.
We deal with 3 wholesalers and apart from the general run of the mill stuff I will ask them for their best price on whatever it is and they only get one chance, its pointless to get them undercutting each other, then best price wins, there are bargains to be had

 

[Festerfly]

I thought the same about the customer being able to get the materials at pretty much the same cost. I am thinking thatadding a small percentage is worthwhile for guarantee purposes etc. But as long as it's a realistic amount not stupidly large profits etc.

Pricing labour is now my next obstacle. I have picked a daily rate. And am learning obviously to estimate my time and try andcover the bases that way but am still stuck trying to gauge an hourly rate and individual works prices etc.

 

[MikeCDF]

On costing for a job I would always add a margin to materials. You need to cover all your hidden expenses like:
Van - Purchase of, insurance, service, tyres, diesel
Your admin time / computer / telephone etc
Insurance costs - liability / sickness etc
Membership fees - IET / NICEIC etc

On your hourly rate while you need to be competitive make sure you can make a living. Also if your job needs certifying under Part P etc remember this needs a competent person so the consumer cannot do this. And if you're not qualified then you need to pay someone to check, and this might mean you having to come back for remedial work!

Personally I charge about £35 hour and no less than £30 and add a minimum of 25% to materials, though if I can manage it I increase my margins.

If you are not sure what your costs are ask the person who does your year end books

That's my advice anyway. Off for a cuppa now. Good Luck

 

[Festerfly]

***current status update!***

Job started well, had to change the routing of the cooker feed, Customer changed her mind on a couple oflittle items and then decided to add some big jobs to the list (install downlighters, change 1 light fitting to an independant feed & swithc etc) which is no problem as i am more then happy to do the work as it means a bit more cash but the downside was it pushed my time estimatoin out of the window with regards to other jobs.. not a big deal i guess as my next customer was more then happy to be delayed by a day or so.

Quite impresesd at it all as this is my first big job and found the exisiting wiring in the house to be a nightmare (rewired at least 3 times along with a partial rewire once the extension was done.. ) still a load or VIR cable upthere which i am removing as i come accross it and its in the way etc.

Customer is pleased with all the work so far and thigns look good for future works/referrals etc.

 

[calv68]

and dont forget to do your obvious tests before carrying out the work