Sockets keep tripping

[clueless456]

Hi,

I moved home a few months ago and the electrics RCD keep tripping. Sometimes it will happen every few days and sometimes will be fine for a few weeks before happening again.

I have identified the problem is coming from the utility room sockets. When it has happened before I have unplugged everything in the utility room and then the RCD switch will remain in the on position and seem to be able to plug everything back in again without any problem, although sometimes I have had to wait a few hours before the RCD switch will turn on again.

The only items used in that room are fridge freezer, washing machine, tumble dryer, and a double socket I use for kettle and sometimes toaster, but these are switched off at the plug when not in use. The washing machine and dryer both have separate fuse switches, although these also seem to be connected to the problem circuit.

I do not think overloading the sockets is a problem. I did previously have an extension lead plugged into the double socket to charge mobile phones and laptop, but have now moved those to other side of property on different sockets.

The last time this happened was in the middle of the night last night and all lights also went off. I have unplugged everything in utility and the RCD switch now remains on, but when I try to turn the sockets breaker back on it just keeps tripping everything, so sockets breaker is still off, so cannot use fridge freezer or washing machine.

Is there anything else I could try without having to call electrician out? Do these things sometimes rectify if left alone for a few hours? I cannot see anything else on that circuit to be unplugged.

Many Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Avo Mk8]

made a suggestion - but clearly wrong now I read the whole post

 

[Mike Johnson]

Faults do not rectify themselves if left alone for a few hours, condensation from the dryer would be my first thought especially if run overnight, but not necessarily the dryer itself, is the dryer or the room vented? Heating elements in any of the units, even the fridge de-frost circuit are the usual suspects.

From your description it would seem that the washing machine and dryer are hard wired into fused outlets and not on plug in sockets? if this is the case you need to disconnect these to trouble shoot the problem, don't know your competency level, but usually a job for an electrician, if you can put a plug on them, unplug everything on the circuit, including the extension leads and any other things plugged in on the other side of the property, plug in and turn on each machine/extension lead one at a time, disconnect and plug in the next one, if the RCD or MCB trips then you possible have found the defective machine/lead.

Just a note, switching off at the socket is not sufficient to isolate the machines, the plugs have to be pulled out of the socket.

MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits.

 

[clueless456]

Faults do not rectify themselves if left alone for a few hours, condensation from the dryer would be my first thought especially if run overnight, but not necessarily the dryer itself, is the dryer or the room vented? Heating elements in any of the units, even the fridge de-frost circuit are the usual suspects.

From your description it would seem that the washing machine and dryer are hard wired into fused outlets and not on plug in sockets? if this is the case you need to disconnect these to trouble shoot the problem, don't know your competency level, but usually a job for an electrician, if you can put a plug on them, unplug everything on the circuit, including the extension leads and any other things plugged in on the other side of the property, plug in and turn on each machine/extension lead one at a time, disconnect and plug in the next one, if the RCD or MCB trips then you possible have found the defective machine/lead.

Just a note, switching off at the socket is not sufficient to isolate the machines, the plugs have to be pulled out of the socket.

MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits.

Thank you for the reply. The reason I asked is because when this happened a few weeks ago, I unplugged everything but the RCD breaker would still not switch on, but when I tried it again a couple of hours later the RCD breaker then worked and stayed in the on position.

I don't think it is tumble dryer condensation. It is a condenser dryer and the window is always open when in use, and is never used overnight.

The washing machine and tumble dryer are plug in sockets, not hardwired. They each also have a separate fuse switch on the wall. I have switched off the fuse sockets for those and also the plug in sockets and pulled the plugs out. The fridge freezer is also switched off with the plug pulled out of the socket.

The sockets in other areas of house are still all working.

It is just the breaker labelled "sockets" that will still not switch on. The only sockets that seem to be on that circuit are in the utility room. When I try to switch the sockets breaker on, it keeps tripping the RCD switch, so unable to switch the sockets breaker on.

If it was a problem with one of the machines and they are now all unplugged completely, should I now be able to switch the sockets breaker switch on now? As it is still not working and trips everything else when I try to switch the breaker back on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If everything is unplugged on that circuit and when you switch on the MCB the RCD trips then you need an electrician with the proper equipment to test the circuit, the MCB and RCD as well, even though that seems to be working correctly.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just a thought, have you or anyone carried out any work in the house just prior to this starting to happen? Even just hanging a picture.

 

[tims22]

The only sockets that seem to be on that circuit are in the utility room.

Just a(nother) thought - are you 100% certain the only sockets on that circuit are in the utility room? With the "sockets" breaker off and everything else on, perhaps try walking around the house plugging something simple like a lamp (assuming you've not got a socket tester) into every socket you can find to confirm that the only ones now dead are in the utility? If those are the only sockets, and everything using them is unplugged or disconnected then you're probably going to need someone with test equipment to check the circuit.

Would assume you've already done this but if not suggest plugging the fridge/freezer into an extension lead temporarily plugged into another working circuit?

 

[clueless456]

If everything is unplugged on that circuit and when you switch on the MCB the RCD trips then you need an electrician with the proper equipment to test the circuit, the MCB and RCD as well, even though that seems to be working correctly.

Could I just check, does MCB mean the individual sockets breaker?

I would really prefer to not have to call an electrician out if possible - If I can somehow manage to get it working again like previous times it has happened.

All of my freezer food is melting and also have medication that needs to be kept refrigerated. Plus my wine is no longer cold. I am not able to run an extension lead elsewhere for the fridge freezer and really don't want to attempt to have to move the freezer to another room....

Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use.

I have noticed a couple of ceiling lights flickering in the past and the bulbs went, but they are not on the same circuit. Could it still be anything related to that? Or would it definitely be a problem just with the utility room?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room. I do not use these leads and not sure if they would be live or not? It is possible they could have become wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?

I did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?

I also always switch the kettle plug off when not in use.

I am just a bit baffled as to why the sockets breaker will not switch on. If there anything else I could try to get the breaker to stay in the on position?

 

[clueless456]

Just a thought, have you or anyone carried out any work in the house just prior to this starting to happen? Even just hanging a picture.

No, although my washing machine does vibrate a lot when used - Could that have caused the problem? The last time washing machine was used was a couple of hours before the electrics tripped.

The fuse for the fitted dishwasher blew a couple of months ago, which is in the kitchen and not on the same circuit as the utility room.

 

[tims22]

Could I just check, does MCB mean the individual sockets breaker?


All of my freezer food is melting and also have medication that needs to be kept refrigerated. Plus my wine is no longer cold. I am not able to run an extension lead elsewhere for the fridge freezer and really don't want to attempt to have to move the freezer to another room....

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

 

[clueless456]

Just a(nother) thought - are you 100% certain the only sockets on that circuit are in the utility room? With the "sockets" breaker off and everything else on, perhaps try walking around the house plugging something simple like a lamp (assuming you've not got a socket tester) into every socket you can find to confirm that the only ones now dead are in the utility? If those are the only sockets, and everything using them is unplugged or disconnected then you're probably going to need someone with test equipment to check the circuit.

Would assume you've already done this but if not suggest plugging the fridge/freezer into an extension lead temporarily plugged into another working circuit?

I am fairly sure the utility is only room on the circuit.

I'm not sure if this makes any difference at all, but when the electrics tripped, it was the main RCD breaker that tripped, not the sockets one - So all of the downstairs lights went out as well.

I then switched all of the other individual breakers off, which then allowed the main RCD to stay in on position. Then individually switched the other individual breakers back on, and it was the sockets breaker that tripped everything again. And it just wont switch back on without tripping the main breaker.

 

[clueless456]

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

It wasn't the main large red breaker that tripped. It was a breaker that operates 4 other individual breakers (including one of the sockets breakers) to it's left that tripped.

When this happened previously, I managed to get the breaker on again, after switching off and unplugging everything in utility and had never before touched the sockets breaker.

So the actual sockets breaker has never tripped itself - It was only when I switched off the 4 individual breakers to the left of the breaker that had tripped, and now unable to switch the sockets breaker back on without tripping the lights etc.

 

[tims22]

It wasn't the main large red breaker that tripped. It was a breaker that operates 4 other individual breakers (including one of the sockets breakers) to it's left that tripped.

When this happened previously, I managed to get the breaker on again, after switching off and unplugging everything in utility and had never before touched the sockets breaker.

So the actual sockets breaker has never tripped itself - It was only when I switched off the 4 individual breakers to the left of the breaker that had tripped, and now unable to switch the sockets breaker back on without tripping the lights etc.

Can you post a photo showing the your consumer unit and the breakers you're talking about please?
It sounds like you're talking about a protective RCD tripping when you switch on the sockets circuit; not the individual MCBs for lights, sockets etc.

As @Mike Johnson posted earlier, MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits. Assuming the RCD that protects the individual "breakers" for lights/sockets etc. is tripping when you turn on the sockets circuit, and that it does not trip with the sockets circuit turned off - then you're back to needing to find the fault on that circuit's wiring or accessories.

I'd start as I said with looking at the outside light if you've disconnected everything else and think there's a chance it's fed from the sockets circuit.

 

[clueless456]

Yes to MCB = breaker. The RCD will be a larger device in your consumer unit - if not sure post a photo and someone will be able to confirm.

From what you've described this doesn't sound like a quick fix. If you've disconnected everything from the circuit and it's still tripping then either something faulty is still connected or there's a fault on the cabling, or at an accessory / socket etc. You'll need someone with test equipment to check all this out.

If the priority is avoiding loss of food / medication / wine, and you can't use an extension lead you have, suggest asking neighbours, friends, family if they have a longer extension cable you could borrow or buying one?

"Whenever this has happened before, it never happens at the same time as something being plugged in, or switched on. It always happens at random times, when nothing is being used in that room, other than the fridge freezer which is the only thing in constant use."
But at those times, were the other appliances plugged in although not being used?

There is also an outside light on the outside of the utility room, which has never worked since moving in. There is another fuse switch in the utility room - I am not sure if that is connected to the outside light, but has been kept switched off since moving into property. Could that be anything to do with it?
Might be, might not be. Impossible to tell from here! If the fused switch has a removable fuse carrier, perhaps try removing it? A potentially faulty outside light fed from the problematic circuit might well be your problem - but no way to confirm that based on your description.

Also there are some old Sky TV leads that run outside near the utility room and come through the wall of the living room.
Shouldn't have anything to do with your mains wiring.

... wet with the heavy rain whilst the patio door was open. Could that be anything to do with this?
Although if it's been raining heavily, it's not impossible that your faulty outside light might be fed from the sockets circuit and it might be the cause of an intermittent fault which has now become worse with additional water perhaps. Bit of grasping at straws there though.

did suspect my laptop charger could have been the problem and noticed the charger cable was slightly damaged. That was plugged in at the socket at the time when the electrics tripped, although it was not being used at the time and the plug socket was switched off. Could that have been anything to do with it?
Probably not linked, especially if plugged into a different circuit.

In the absence of having someone in to test, which would 100% be my recommendation at this point, I'd probably start off by disconnecting the outside light wiring from the load side of the fused switch. Might not be anything whatsoever to do with the problem, but if you think it might be fed from the circuit; and it's never worked; and it's all got worse since heavy rain.. then may be worth exploring. If you're not able to do this safely, or don't know how to do it, PLEASE just get someone in!

Re the laptop charger - It was plugged into the utility socket at the time, so on the same circuit, but was not switched on at the plug.

Please could you confirm if the old Sky TV wires would be live at all? As that has always bothered me with them coming through the living room wall.

I am not able to run an extension lead for the fridge freezer as the utility room door has to stay closed.

Re the outside light, please could you advise how that can be disconnected? Would there be a plug in wire attached to the actual outside light that I can simply unplug?

 

[tims22]

Re the laptop charger - It was plugged into the utility socket at the time, so on the same circuit, but was not switched on at the plug.

Please could you confirm if the old Sky TV wires would be live at all? As that has always bothered me with them coming through the living room wall.

I obviously can't confirm anything without seeing them - but ASSUMING that they are indeed Sky / Satellite TV cables, with the outside end presumably connected to an old Sky dish mounted on your house, and the inside end presumably connected to Sky equipment or left coiled up somewhere disconnected, then they really shouldn't be live. If you don't know for sure, follow it from where it both enters your living room to wherever it ends and confirm nothing is connected along the way and do the same to the outside piece to confirm it's not being used for anything unexpected.

 

[clueless456]

Can you post a photo showing the your consumer unit and the breakers you're talking about please?
It sounds like you're talking about a protective RCD tripping when you switch on the sockets circuit; not the individual MCBs for lights, sockets etc.

As @Mike Johnson posted earlier, MCB's trip on overload, RCD's trip on short circuits. Assuming the RCD that protects the individual "breakers" for lights/sockets etc. is tripping when you turn on the sockets circuit, and that it does not trip with the sockets circuit turned off - then you're back to needing to find the fault on that circuit's wiring or accessories.

I'd start as I said with looking at the outside light if you've disconnected everything else and think there's a chance it's fed from the sockets circuit.

Sorry I am not able to take a pic, but yes your first paragraph is correct.

 

[clueless456]

Sorry I am not able to take a pic, but yes your first paragraph is correct.

Managed to take a photo...

 

[nicebutdim]

Worth mentioning that continually resetting an rcd that won't hold will eventually lead to its failure.

If it fails in the closed position you might be left with the impression that the fault has been rectified, while a potentially dangerous fault still exists and could have lethal consequences.

I can appreciate you wanting to get to the bottom of this and learn what caused the issue, but repeatedly closing an rcd on a known fault isn't a recommended method of testing for reasons outlined above.

 

[clueless456]

Worth mentioning that continually resetting an rcd that won't hold will eventually lead to its failure.

If it fails in the closed position you might be left with the impression that the fault has been rectified, while a potentially dangerous fault still exists and could have lethal consequences.

I can appreciate you wanting to get to the bottom of this and learn what caused the issue, but repeatedly closing an rcd on a known fault isn't a recommended method of testing for reasons outlined above.

Thanks. I have tried to reset a few times, but not too much.

So it seems there are some other sockets not working either. I was just considering trying to move the fridge freezer into the kitchen for now, and tested one of the kitchen switches with the toaster and also a mobile phone charger to check the socket was working, but kitchen sockets not working either. And the living room sockets also not working.

This has confused me as the kitchen sockets are on a different circuit breaker, which does not trip the RCD protector when the kitchen sockets breaker is switched on. I thought the problem was just in utility room.

Lights are working and the oven / hob / microwave is working, just not the other sockets. Other sockets in the rest of the house are working ok.

I have plastic plug protectors plugged into some sockets, but the plug socket switches are switched off. Could the plastic plug protectors be a possible cause?

 

[Avo Mk8]

This has confused me as the kitchen sockets are on a different circuit breaker, which does not trip the RCD protector when the kitchen sockets breaker is switched on. I thought the problem was just in utility room.

Lights are working and the oven / hob / microwave is working, just not the other sockets. Other sockets in the rest of the house are working ok.

I would expect all the breakers to the left of the RCD to be fed from it, so if the RCD is tripped then none of those circuits will work, everything to the right should carry on working as before.
You might try unplugging everything that is on all the circuits to the left of the RCD, and seeing if the RCD will reset.
As has been said previously, a plugged in appliance, lamp, etc. with an earth to neutral fault can cause tripping even if switched off at its plug.