TP Fan Isolator in Shower Room

[Midwest]

Went to look at a job yesterday, shower room refurbishment. I'm just replacing the existing main light, vanity mirror and dual fuel towel rad. No RCD protection on lighting, but as I'm just replacing what's there, I consider that just maintenance.

There is also an extractor fan, located outside just outside zone 2 (appears suitable for outside zones). Unusually, the TP isolator (plate switch) is located next to fan (I normally install isolator outside bathroom). I'm only removing fan & isolator, so the wall can be tiled, then re-fix. I've checked OSG, and plate switches can be installed in bathrooms outside zones, but still not 100% happy. Thoughts?

 

[Wilko]

If you're not changing the installation and IP rating is ok then I reckon its great they've got you in to look after it and make sure it all goes back correctly. But I always try to interest folks in a safety upgrade

 

[Ian1981]

As the switch is for maintenance mainly and if it's unlikely to be constantly switched on and off by the user then if outside the zones I would find it acceptable.
bs7671 also considers equipment suitable to the environment

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I'd be inclined to provide RCD protection to that circuit. If an RCBO isn't an option then I sometimes fit an RCD FCU at the DB and run the lighting circuit through it suitably labelled. Doesn't add much cost or time but the safety improvement is worthwhile.

 

[richy3333]

I've seen similar and felt uncomfortable but just had to accept it. But still wasn't happy.
Is the bonding ok?
Is the fan fused down, many manufacturers specify this in the destructions? (Recently became involved in a situation where a Brian the bodger felt it was ok to stick all the TP isolators in the eaves which were then not accessible. Fan manufacturer said they had to also be fused down (been in their instructions for 30+ years). Customers solicitor felt it was enough to sue the installer!).

 

[Midwest]

As the switch is for maintenance mainly and if it's unlikely to be constantly switched on and off by the user then if outside the zones I would find it acceptable.
bs7671 also considers equipment suitable to the environment

It's the last part of your post Ian, that's had me thinking. However, the owner doesn't use the switch, runs on timer. Could install a pull cord, but that would look a bit naff.

 

[Midwest]

I've seen similar and felt uncomfortable but just had to accept it. But still wasn't happy.
Is the bonding ok?
Is the fan fused down, many manufacturers specify this in the destructions? (Recently became involved in a situation where a Brian the bodger felt it was ok to stick all the TP isolators in the eaves which were then not accessible. Fan manufacturer said they had to also be fused down (been in their instructions for 30+ years). Customers solicitor felt it was enough to sue the installer!).

I'll check the bonding. Doubt there'll be instructions for the fan re fuse, but think I'll put the fuse debate to one side ))

 

[Midwest]

I'd be inclined to provide RCD protection to that circuit. If an RCBO isn't an option then I sometimes fit an RCD FCU at the DB and run the lighting circuit through it suitably labelled. Doesn't add much cost or time but the safety improvement is worthwhile.

RCD fcu would be problematic, CU on display in hallway, so nowhere to conceal it there, and without making a lot of mess around shower room (its on grd floor), can't locate it there. As I'm not adding to install, comfortable with not adding RCD (did discuss with customer).

Its just the TP isolator, wouldn't locate one there myself, but obviously the previous electrician thought otherwise, so with your thoughts, I'll leave as is.

Thanks chaps.

 

[Octopus]

MWC outlining your observation and possible remedial actions with invoice.

Job done.

You can't go around insisting on changes to peoples homes where there is no immediate danger. If you were doing an EICR, you would highlight the lack of RCD protection but not the isolator!

 

[Ian1981]

It's the last part of your post Ian, that's had me thinking. However, the owner doesn't use the switch, runs on timer. Could install a pull cord, but that would look a bit naff.

I think you'll be fine with how it is pal.
It's not like it's being used as a functional switch

 

[cliffed]

I've seen similar and felt uncomfortable but just had to accept it. But still wasn't happy.
Is the bonding ok?
Is the fan fused down, many manufacturers specify this in the destructions? (Recently became involved in a situation where a Brian the bodger felt it was ok to stick all the TP isolators in the eaves which were then not accessible. Fan manufacturer said they had to also be fused down (been in their instructions for 30+ years). Customers solicitor felt it was enough to sue the installer!).

Does anyone actually fit a switched spur at fan,I doubt it

 

[Midwest]

I tend to fit fused TPN isolator if manufacturer specifies fusing at 3a.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I tend to fit fused TPN isolator if manufacturer specifies fusing at 3a.

I've never understood why people do that if powered off a (6A) lighting circuit.
The 6A MCB will trip a long time before the 3A BS1362 fuse will, so its pointless.

 

[DPG]

I've never understood why people do that if powered off a (6A) lighting circuit.
The 6A MCB will trip a long time before the 3A BS1362 fuse will, so its pointless.

Unfortunately, if there is a fire at some point in the future (even if it wasn't caused by the 6A circuit protection, etc.) and you haven't followed manf's instructions then you put yourself at risk of prosecution. You would have to hope the magistrate understood the breaking times of fuses vs MCBs. Unlikely, and ridiculous, but you see my point.

 

[Midwest]

I just 'take account of manufacturers instructions'.

 

[Midwest]

PS; I 've seen several threads debating such, where in the case of a short circuit, it's odds & evens as to which would go first, whereas in the case of an overload, the 3a 1362 would go first. Now I'm not clever enough to say if that's correct or not?

Let the debate begin.

 

[DPG]

Be an interesting test to do. I would put a fiver on the 6A mcb tripping before the 3A cartridge fuse blew though.

 

[Octopus]

Just try and buy fans which don't need 3A fuses....

 

[Wilko]

Previous fun tests with workshop B32 rfc and s/c at plug ( ) resulted in both fuse melt and mcb trip for 13A and 5A fuses, but 3A fuse blew fast enough to discriminate and B32 mcb didn't trip. Actual results may vary, sample size 1 ...

 

[Midwest]

As I said, too technical for me. I might not be Mr Skelton best'est buddie, but he gave good reasoning here; Fuse size? - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/fuse-size.64317/ (# 11), along with a differing view by Engineer 54.