Trade Skills 4 U waste of time?

[rebeccathornley]

I'm 24 and looking for a career change into the electrical industry. Could anyone advise me on the practicality of undertaking a fast track level 2 course with trade skills 4 u? I'm by no means expecting to be a fully qualified electrician by the end of this, I'm hoping to get the level 2 qualification to increase my chances of getting an electrican apprenticeship as it seems competition is rife right now and i'm a bit disadvantaged being older than the typical apprentice.

I've heard so much about these courses being a waste of time and money - is that still true even if I am just using this course to boost my chances of getting an apprenticeship after completion? Am I still better off doing the level 2 as an evening course at my local college?


Any thoughts/advice would be appreciated! Thanks

 

[MJPD29]

I can’t really see the point in doing a level 2 course as the level 2 is done as part of the full apprenticeship on the way to level 3.

 

[rewireIT]

I can’t really see the point in doing a level 2 course as the level 2 is done as part of the full apprenticeship on the way to level 3.

A lot of apprentices do the level 2 and carry it over into an apprenticeship.

OP - the material is the material. It doesn't matter where you do it or how long it takes, if you know it you know it and if you don't you don't.

The real kicker is you need experience and to get that the only way is to be out in the field working.

If i were you i'd get my 18th edition, a CSCS card and try getting out as a mate whilst applying for every apprenticeship going in your area. I'd also personally contact each company in your local area individually.

Along side this, start learning the basics any way you can - breaker sizes/cable pairings, how to fix stuff to things (drilling and plugging), cutting and forming things, using levels, wrapping up and labelling cable, measuring, etc.

Apprenticeships are not the be all and end all. You can pick up the same experience and training as a mate out on site, whilst getting considerably better money.

You don't say what your background is - do you have a background in related fields or with transferable skills eg labouring, general maintenance, anything like that?

 

[rebeccathornley]

A lot of apprentices do the level 2 and carry it over into an apprenticeship.

OP - the material is the material. It doesn't matter where you do it or how long it takes, if you know it you know it and if you don't you don't.

The real kicker is you need experience and to get that the only way is to be out in the field working.

If i were you i'd get my 18th edition, a CSCS card and try getting out as a mate whilst applying for every apprenticeship going in your area. I'd also personally contact each company in your local area individually.

Along side this, start learning the basics any way you can - breaker sizes/cable pairings, how to fix stuff to things (drilling and plugging), cutting and forming things, using levels, wrapping up and labelling cable, measuring, etc.

Apprenticeships are not the be all and end all. You can pick up the same experience and training as a mate out on site, whilst getting considerably better money.

You don't say what your background is - do you have a background in related fields or with transferable skills eg labouring, general maintenance, anything like that?

I have experience in traffic management on construction sites but the majority of my working life has been spent in agriculture, so im pretty handy with tools/fixing things/heavy machinery but a complete newbie with anything electrical but yeah ive definitely picked up a lot of transferable skills in these environments!

My original plan was to do my level 2 as a 6 week course and once ive completed that search for work as a mate then go on to do my level 3 and build a portfolio but i see a lot of people saying these fast track courses are a waste of time! Though surely if you still plan on getting all the site experience along side the theory it's all pretty similar?

Just worried about finding work as a mate with no direct experience and if the fast track course isn't as respected as a college evening course, which is why i'd rather the apprentice route!

 

[rewireIT]

I have experience in traffic management on construction sites but the majority of my working life has been spent in agriculture, so im pretty handy with tools/fixing things/heavy machinery but a complete newbie with anything electrical but yeah ive definitely picked up a lot of transferable skills in these environments!

So you're good with tools, it's a great start. Build on that by getting some cheap VDE rated tools and learn to use them to do electrical stuff with. I recommend the Stanley FatMax drivers, they're ace for the price. Just make sure to chuck the piddly little tester driver since they're dangerous.

My original plan was to do my level 2 as a 6 week course and once ive completed that search for work as a mate then go on to do my level 3 and build a portfolio but i see a lot of people saying these fast track courses are a waste of time! Though surely if you still plan on getting all the site experience along side the theory it's all pretty similar?

This is something that bitter older sparks say online. On site you'll somewhat tongue-in-cheek get called a 'dilutey' but who cares? You just don't tell anyone where you did it. It's part of the culture where if you didn't do an apprenticeship on rubbish money for 5 years like them then you didn't do it properly. I dropped out of my apprenticeship because i was being paid £4 an hour as a 30-odd year old with a family. I went straight on site as a mate earning nearly £20 an hour. My wage now varies between £17-22 depending on the job. My quals are 18th edition, CSCS, ipaf.

The course content is the content. Taking 12 months to do a course that can be done in 6 weeks is stupid imo. Get an Anki deck going and work through the level 2 book, you'll memorise the lot. If you pm me your email i'll send you the books for free.

Just worried about finding work as a mate with no direct experience and if the fast track course isn't as respected as a college evening course, which is why i'd rather the apprentice route!

Apprenticeships are like rocking horse turds, you're better off applying for them but also doing other stuff to empower yourself to get to where you want to go. With an apprenticeship you're beholden to someone to take you on; if you go the mate route you can take steps to achieve that and nobody can stop you.

 

[rewireIT]

^ i should say about my last comment above - the only thing about going the mate route is to get your NVQ you have to prove 5 years experience whereas on an apprenticeship you'll have it done by the end of year 4.

 

[oscar21]

Trade skills 4 U are a bunch of shysters that sprang up out of nowhere at exactly the same time as part P was introduced, now they are a multi million pound business. Think about that next time you have a mouth full of insulation in the deepest darkest corner of someone's loft.

 

[rewireIT]

Trade skills 4 U are a bunch of shysters that sprang up out of nowhere at exactly the same time as part P was introduced, now they are a multi million pound business. Think about that next time you have a mouth full of insulation in the deepest darkest corner of someone's loft.

They are owned by City and Guilds now. At least you know you're not gonna get ripped off by them.

Personally i'd rather go somewhere like that then spend 2 years fannying around at college, upon leaving which everyone will say sorry, you've got no experience.

 

[7029 dave]

On site you'll somewhat tongue-in-cheek get called a 'dilutey' but who cares?

LOL thats filed away in the nut

 

[nicebutdim]

Level 2 is only required in an apprenticeship if basic entry qualifications aren't met - generally C or above in maths & English, but every short course and distance learning training provider seems to insist on completion of level 2 for all trainees - can't imagine why...

Apprenticeships are 4 years (5 if starting at level 2), but this isn't always a hard and fast rule, with some apprentices being given the opportunity to shave a year off if it's clear they have required knowlege and ability.

I'm not sure why there's such push back against apprenticeships from a member who isn't yet qualified, but I guess everyone can only speak from their own experience and it's difficult to compare with something you haven't experienced.

Ultimately I'd encourage the OP to explore all available options and find the path they think fits best for whatever it is they want to achieve.

 

[rewireIT]

Trade skills 4 U are a bunch of shysters that sprang up out of nowhere at exactly the same time as part P was introduced, now they are a multi million pound business. Think about that next time you have a mouth full of insulation in the deepest darkest corner of someone's loft.

In fact i take back what i said about TS4U - they now mandate that you do their pointless 'Step 1' course BEFORE you can even do the Level 2. They've essentially split the Level 2, called it 'Step 1' and 'Step 2' and charged two fees for it. Adds a cool £1800 onto the cost of training with them. Shameful.

 

[nicebutdim]

In fact i take back what i said about TS4U - they now mandate that you do their pointless 'Step 1' course BEFORE you can even do the Level 2. Adds a cool £1800 onto the cost of training with them.

Pretty much every training provider outside of colleges have this requirement. There may be some who don't, but not any that I've looked at.

 

[oscar21]

Can you not wing it anymore getting into the electrical industry? I never did the official college course back in the mid 90's when I started. I kind of knew what I was doing due to my dad kind of knowing what he was doing and I kind of re-wired my first house so it at least all worked. When I went for a job interview at a local sparks desperate for electricians I just told them I had done several re-wires and I knew what I was doing. As long as you are intelligent you can pick it up as you go along and after 5 years and my boss paying for an expensive 16th edition and 2391 course for me I was their qualifying manager.

Not long after that I became self employed and then you really do have the licence to wing it. Even recently we needed the CSCS card to do a job on site but they accepted the screen shot of the booked and paid for H&S course they let us on site as they needed us quickly. Do you think we actually bothered turning up and doing the course? Of course not, who's got time for that, We did the job, got paid and the CSCS thing would have ran out by now anyway, everyone was happy - we winged it.

I know part P has probably kyboshed a lot of that now but is it so difficult to do something similar in the industrial side of things, I cant believe someone would blow their life savings on getting a job, its got scam written all over it, they should be paying you.

 

[oscar21]

In fact i take back what i said about TS4U - they now mandate that you do their pointless 'Step 1' course BEFORE you can even do the Level 2. They've essentially split the Level 2, called it 'Step 1' and 'Step 2' and charged two fees for it. Adds a cool £1800 onto the cost of training with them. Shameful.

When I updated to the 18th TS4U insisted that I did the full 3 day course instead of the update course because the 17th qualification I had didn't include the latest amendment. Cost was about £400, robbing bar stewards. Did it with NAPIT instead with one of those patronising on line courses, about £200 I think.

 

[nicebutdim]

Not long after that I became self employed and then you really do have the licence to wing it. Even recently we needed the CSCS card to do a job on site but they accepted the screen shot of the booked and paid for H&S course they let us on site as they needed us quickly. Do you think we actually bothered turning up and doing the course? Of course not, who's got time for that, We did the job, got paid and the CSCS thing would have ran out by now anyway, everyone was happy - we winged it.

I know part P has probably kyboshed a lot of that now but is it so difficult to do something similar in the industrial side of things, I cant believe someone would blow their life savings on getting a job, its got scam written all over it, they should be paying you.

No one needs to blow a load of money on training, when it's available for a fairly reasonable price from colleges and funding is available to cover course fees for adult apprentices.

Winging it in the industrial sector would be nigh on impossible as you're generally going to need to be a scheme registered contractor, with every person on site provding CSCS/CSR details as part of their induction. Maybe small commercial jobs could be run this way, but anything of a half decent size and the main contractor isn't going to be taking chances on unknown quantities.

 

[nicebutdim]

Personally i'd rather go somewhere like that then spend 2 years fannying around at college, upon leaving which everyone will say sorry, you've got no experience.

What difference would it make whether a person went to a training provider or night classes at a local college?

Both options provide for people working in the industry, people with experience and people for whom neither applies.

 

[rewireIT]

When I updated to the 18th TS4U insisted that I did the full 3 day course instead of the update course because the 17th qualification I had didn't include the latest amendment. Cost was about £400, robbing bar stewards. Did it with NAPIT instead with one of those patronising on line courses, about £200 I think.

Lol wot you don't even have to do a course. I literally just got the book and booked on for the exam.

 

[rewireIT]

Can you not wing it anymore getting into the electrical industry? I never did the official college course back in the mid 90's when I started. I kind of knew what I was doing due to my dad kind of knowing what he was doing and I kind of re-wired my first house so it at least all worked. When I went for a job interview at a local sparks desperate for electricians I just told them I had done several re-wires and I knew what I was doing. As long as you are intelligent you can pick it up as you go along and after 5 years and my boss paying for an expensive 16th edition and 2391 course for me I was their qualifying manager.

Not long after that I became self employed and then you really do have the licence to wing it. Even recently we needed the CSCS card to do a job on site but they accepted the screen shot of the booked and paid for H&S course they let us on site as they needed us quickly. Do you think we actually bothered turning up and doing the course? Of course not, who's got time for that, We did the job, got paid and the CSCS thing would have ran out by now anyway, everyone was happy - we winged it.

I know part P has probably kyboshed a lot of that now but is it so difficult to do something similar in the industrial side of things, I cant believe someone would blow their life savings on getting a job, its got scam written all over it, they should be paying you.

Can't say i disagree with you - i fudged my CV big time when i got started cause i knew i could do the job. I stay firmly in my lane by telling people i'm a mate/improver and never try to claim i'm a spark.

On my very first job as a 'trainee' i saw the agency improvers on 18 quid an hour working and they were terrible. I thought i can do this. So i went and did it.

 

[7029 dave]

Nearly all sites have foreign labour including electricians, do you think they are all qualified to UK standards, no chance. One English QS and jobs a gooden, cheap labour been going on for quite a few years.

 

[nicebutdim]

On my very first job as a 'trainee' i saw the agency improvers on 18 quid an hour working and they were terrible. I thought i can do this. So i went and did it.

You've told us this many times before in similar threads, and it's great that it got you a better wage, but I fail to see how it helps the OP who simply asked if completing level 2 with this training provider is a worthwhile endeavour to help them find an apprenticeship.

You and I started apprenticeships at the same time. You quit in favor of better earnings, while it's taken me two years to get onto the same sort of money (Although I'm in NI, so £18/hr is probably worth £22/23 in GB terms).

Unless I'm missing something your choices in getting your cards are: a. A college course. b. An expensive training provider or c. Mature worker assessment which requires proof of 5 years experience, before you even begin.

If all goes well my apprenticeship should deliver an NVQ this coming year, with AM2 shortly after. Obviously this depends on me getting the book work done, but the opportunity awaits.

While I'm pleased that your choices were the correct ones for you, I don't think they're for everyone and I'm firmly of the belief that discouraging people from undertaking apprenticeships is dreadful advice. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but will maintain that the OP (at 24 years of age) should consider all available options, before throwing away good opportunities on the advice of someone who hasn't achieved what the OP is aiming for.