UK why is the washing machine tripping

[lonrom]

Greetings All. FTP. the electric keeps tripping mid cycle - not every time and not related to any particular programme. we have recently replaced the washing machine and the problem still persists and is probably more frequent now. it is not one of the usual suspects of latch, element etc. am scratching my head and any suggestions are much appreciated. thanks in advance.

 

[pc1966]

Can you clarify exactly what is tripping?

I suspect it is an RCD (residual current device) but if you can post a photo of your consumer unit (CU = fuse box) and point out what it is tripping it might help. If posting photos, etc, please blank out any personal information on yourself or who fitted the board, etc.

More generally there are a few possible reasons for this. Given it is a new washing machine with the same issue it is unlikely you had two with a similar fault.

It can be caused by a lot of circuits on one RCD, so it has close to the trip current on the small amount of leakage everything has and occasionally the washing machine pushes it over. Or it can be a fault on one of the other circuits between neutral and earth that causes enough current to go that route only when the machine's motor kicks in a it takes a high current to spin the motor up.

Probably you will need to get someone in to check the house wiring to rule those possible reasons out, but there may be other tests a DIY person could do to narrow it down. Out of interest, has the property been tested (EICR = electrical installation condition report) in the last few years?

 

[brianmoooore]

Just been answering questions on a similar other thread! Are all your sockets on one RCD? A pic. of your fusebox may help.

 

[Pete999]

Greetings All. FTP. the electric keeps tripping mid cycle - not every time and not related to any particular programme. we have recently replaced the washing machine and the problem still persists and is probably more frequent now. it is not one of the usual suspects of latch, element etc. am scratching my head and any suggestions are much appreciated. thanks in advance.

Water getting in the electrical gubbins I should imagine

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Unlikely if the OP has replaced the washing machine and it is still happening, as he seems to imply. As per @pc1966 it might well be a neutral-earth somewhere that is being revealed by the WM heater coming on and putting load on the circuit.

 

[ipf]

Strangely enough, had a call today from a woman having the same problem, tripping every few minutes.......quick call because she sounded in a bit of trouble. It's a double RCD con unit, replaced a few years ago. Obviously it's an intermittent fault so I gave the washer a couple of runs and checked other loads on the circuit....no tripping. Not much you can do without starting to take things apart, so I ramp tested (21mA), a bit on the low side. I found an oven, with clock, plugged in to the circuit, hardly ever used, so unplugged to take that out of the equation. Other usual kitchen stuff. She had loads of washes to do and hasn't phoned back yet......
The biggest problem was trying to get over to her what exactly she needed to do (unplugging other appliances) and explaining the reasons for doing so.

 

[timhoward]

The biggest problem was trying to get over to her what exactly she needed to do (unplugging other appliances) and explaining the reasons for doing so.

It can certainly be fun trying to explain rcds. I’ve settled on the phrase ‘electricity going the wrong way’, what the ‘right way’ is, and the rcd measures how much goes the ‘wrong way’. I’ve given up on describing it as Earth leakage. Takes too long!

 

[pc1966]

RCDs are hard to explain, even some sparks struggle a bit to grasp their implications. I guess some might see an accountancy analogue - if money in and money out don't tally then someone is staling stuff - but it would be nice to have a simple A4 leaflet to hand out that was understandable by most non-specialists.

There are some, like the BEMA booklet, that go some way to cover them with handy diagrams but they go far too deep and end up as a couple of dozen pages, etc.

 

[timhoward]

RCDs are hard to explain, even some sparks struggle a bit to grasp their implications. I guess some might see an accountancy analogue - if money in and money out don't tally then someone is stealing stuff

I like that. I might steal that one for the odd occasion the blank look prevails. I'm half expecting someone to point out that my stock answer is flawed because they actually check that the right amount is going the right way....but it seems to work with customers and gets the point over.
My worst experience was when I dumbed it down a lot and the customer turned out to be a retired physics teacher! Luckily he was a lovely man and I let him play with my MFT and measure his earth electrode which made his day. He was the opposite of most customers who want the power back on pronto. "What else can we test?!"

 

[nicebutdim]

My worst experience was when I dumbed it down a lot and the customer turned out to be a retired physics teacher! Luckily he was a lovely man and I let him play with my MFT and measure his earth electrode which made his day. He was the opposite of most customers who want the power back on pronto. "What else can we test?!"

?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I also like the simplicity of saying the current is 'going the wrong way' and might use it. It could also help clarify the difference between MCB and RCD: MCB detects when too much is flowing, and RCD detects whether it is flowing the wrong way. So if a lot of electricity flows the wrong way, either or both might trip.

Luckily, many of my customers (especially for the electronic stuff I make) are technical and both understand and care about what goes on under the hood. They know what they want and how it's going to work, and I know if I design and build something that meets their requirements, they will be happy. I don't have to justify everything.

Anyway, OP, try unplugging all major appliances on the same circuit when the washing machine is running. This will both reduce the total leakage and potentially remove any neutral-earth fault if it is in an appliance rather than in the fixed wiring. To be clear, this type of fault can be present in one part of the circuit or appliance, but only manifest as a trip when another appliance with heavier load is operated.

 

[pirate]

While we are on the subject of washing machines...
A few days ago a neighbour phoned me in a panic. She had been using her washing machine, the cycle had completed and she took her stuff out as usual. A few minutes later she heard a buzzing noise coming from the machine. I asked if she had an isolator above the worktop, but from dealing with previous problems in this recently re-fitted kitchen i knew the answer would be no, partly becuase she has glass splashbacks which are tricky to cut holes in and partly because although on the surface all looks lovely and glossy, beneath the surface it is a bodge. Anway, she sounded very worried, and my first thought was the motor was still running but jammed. Off i went, and on arrival switched off the socket circuit No. 1...still buzzing. Switched off socket circuit No. 2...still buzzing. Switched everything off...still buzzing. It was louder when I opened the cupboard next to the machine...the under-sink one. I lifted out the bin...and problem solved. In the bin was one of these:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268100304

She had binned it because it wasn't working, but clearly it still had some charge in it.
She was a bit embarrassed, but much less so than if it had been another appliance...

I enjoyed the bottle of Rioja she gave me, with my dinner that night.

 

[nicebutdim]

I lifted out the bin...and problem solved. In the bin was one of these:

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/268100304

She had binned it because it wasn't working, but clearly it still had some charge in it.
She was a bit embarrassed, but much less so than if it had been another appliance...

I'll never own another of those - not on your life.

About ten years ago I'd settled into the cramped space that passes for a seat on budget airlines, ready for take off. It seemed there was some delay, prior to doors closing and steps being wheeled away, which became apparent when a stewardess approached me and uttered the words "excuse me Sir, do you have anything in your checked luggage that might vibrate?"

I laughed and the folks beside me laughed, but the Stewardess only smirked and it was at that point I realised she was serious. Turned out it was one of those toothbrushes and it never occured to me that it was motorised. Flight crew were watching through the door and, what seemed like, the entire ground crew were standing around me while I searched that case. I held the bugger up for all to see, but it didn't matter as there was no way the entire plane hadn't made their mind up about the source of this problem.

Never, ever take the risk of buying battery powered dental hygiene devices.