nvq level 3 am2

[jamesie]

trying to get jib card, got 2360 part 1 and 2, 17th edition and 2391.working as a spark for 30 years.

References from 3 jib approved companies i have worked for as a subby. jib would only give me a trainee card.

saying i need am2 or nvq level 3, looked at doing the am2 apparently testing and inspecting is part of it whats the point of doing the same thing twice.

seems stupid to me, anyway round it.

 

[Plonker 3]

Your about 2 weeks too late, as before end of last year you would only have needed the NVQ which you could have done through forum sponser XS training but the requirements have since changed so you now also need the AM2

 

[Welchyboy1]

Your about 2 weeks too late, as before end of last year you would only have needed the NVQ which you could have done through forum sponser XS training but the requirements have since changed so you now also need the AM2

Makes a nice change someones actually increasing their requirements rather than watering them down

 

[newtothis]

NVQ3 Blimey is that all one needs to be a fully qualified spark. LOL

 

[Plonker 3]

Makes a nice change someones actually increasing their requirements rather than watering them down

But the AM2 is now very watered down, think its more a money making excercise rather than a education thing.

 

[7029 dave]

trying to get jib card, got 2360 part 1 and 2, 17th edition and 2391.working as a spark for 30 years.

References from 3 jib approved companies i have worked for as a subby. jib would only give me a trainee card.

saying i need am2 or nvq level 3, looked at doing the am2 apparently testing and inspecting is part of it whats the point of doing the same thing twice.

seems stupid to me, anyway round it.

I don't believe it, with your quals an experience, tell them to stick their card.!!

 

[jase]

trying to get jib card, got 2360 part 1 and 2, 17th edition and 2391.


Snap. And they gave me an ancillary operative card, with my JIB grade being electrical labourer.

I wouldnt give give a ---- if it was just that anyone you work for might want to see you certs, but in some sites the site foreman won't let you near electrics with that title on your CSCS as all they see is the word labourer. Takes the absolute urine.

 

[rmc86uk]

If you work for agency they will pay you based on the grade of the card. Usually around £9.50 for mates and £14 for Electricians. Both crap rates anyway but £4.50 an hour difference is a lot. If I was you I would get what you need to get the full card.

 

[Engineer54]

A proven 30 years experience across the board trumps any NVQ 3 and AM2 qualifications hands down!! It was also the reasoning behind the term ''Grandfather Rights'' for obtaining JIB/SJIB trade cards....

They only needed to bring about NVQ's in the first place, because the standard of training apprentices were falling well below what had been seen as acceptable levels of work skills entering the workplace....

 

[old_sparky_RE]

I'm trying to transfer from SJIB to JIB and have had no joy from JIB on doing so, as in, I emailed them over a week ago and no one has contacted me back with information.
My worry is that my trade qualls are similar (C&G 2369 C) to Jamesie but with 26 years experience so they won't transfer me over without the AM2.

Any idea's Gents?

 

[Maddison]

the JIB seem to think the NVQ and AM2 are the be all and end all of being an electrician.. its just a shame that you work towards getting a JIB card rather than on a national register...

 

[rmc86uk]

The NVQ along with the AM2 proves that you have the practical experience.

 

[Engineer54]

The NVQ along with the AM2 proves that you have the practical experience.

Unfortunately, neither of them really proves anything of the sort.....

 

[rmc86uk]

I do agree with you E54 but apart from references which I think can be false what else do you think can prove practical competence?

 

[uksparks]

As far as bits of paper go, it's probably about as good as it gets, it's all down to proving yourself from there on.

 

[Engineer54]

I do agree with you E54 but apart from references which I think can be false what else do you think can prove practical competence?

At least references given on company headed paperwork can be checked/authenticated. It would be a very silly move on the company's behalf to give a falsified reference, even for a friend!! You have more chance of a NVQ being falsified than a company's reference.

Unfortunately there is no other way to prove practical competence, the NVQ system as it stands is more of a sticky plaster to cover over what once was expected from all working electricians that had passed through an apprenticeship....

 

[Guest125]

I think the 2360 P1&2 (or whatever it is now) NVQ 2&3 and after a few years the 2391 (or whatever it is now) is enough as far as qualifications go. From then on you will find your market and perfect your skills.

AMT2 is worthless IMHO.

But on top of all this you need people skills, computer literacy, common sense and many other skills that I believe come from an apprentiship.

 

[7029 dave]

The NVQ along with the AM2 proves that you have the practical experience.

Disagree there, any old mug can take an photo as evidence, don't mean to say they done such tasks.

 

[rmc86uk]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

 

[Guest125]

Disagree there, any old mug can take an photo as evidence, don't mean to say they done such tasks.

Yeah. "Proves" is probably the wrong word. I understand what he is trying to say. At the end of the day no Certs "prove" anything. They just show that you passed an exam once.

 

[Guest125]

I have never liked the AM2. Carrying out installation in a controlled atmosphere is unrealistic. The NVQ carried out over two years is the best we have and I think it is worth something. I think a few old school sparks will never accept any modern qualification no matter how good they may be. A lot of them are on this forum.

 

[7029 dave]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

You have to remember, I am from an totally different generation, when done my C&G236, 50%was practical course work, pass or fail simple as that before you even sat the closed book. Fail any one of these it meant deferred end of.

 

[Engineer54]

I have never liked the AM2. Carrying out installation in a controlled atmosphere is unrealistic. The NVQ carried out over two years is the best we have and I think it is worth something. I think a few old school sparks will never accept any modern qualification no matter how good they may be. A lot of them are on this forum.

It's not worth a jot, if the holder has only gone through the motions. I'm not saying that all holders of the NVQ 3 haven't completed them legitimately, but there are far too many that used totally bogus photo's and logbook entries therefore gaining an equally bogus NVQ cert!!

Where a certification system of checks and balances is open to abuse/fraud, then you'll generally find that is what's going to happen, ...it's human nature, especially where high fee's are concerned.

Yes it's the best you have at the moment, but at the end of the day it's a sticky plaster to cover up the falling standards of training. There is a lot to be said and missed about the training many of those so-called old sparks/dinosaurs training. ....And you're dead right, I AM one of them and damn proud to be so too!!

 

[Maddison]

What about the AM2 then? What's your opinion on proving practical competence? You should see the numpties I see week in week out on the site I'm on. How do they slip through the net and get on site?

numpties that hold a gold "electrician " JIB card or the ones that like you to think they are qualified ?

 

[Guest125]

It's not worth a jot, if the holder has only gone through the motions. I'm not saying that all holders of the NVQ 3 haven't completed them legitimately, but there are far too many that used totally bogus photo's and logbook entries therefore gaining an equally bogus NVQ cert!!

Where a certification system of checks and balances is open to abuse/fraud, then you'll generally find that is what's going to happen, ...it's human nature, especially where high fee's are concerned.

Yes it's the best you have at the moment, but at the end of the day it's a sticky plaster to cover up the falling standards of training. There is a lot to be said and missed about the training many of those so-called old sparks/dinosaurs training. ....And you're dead right, I AM one of them and damn proud to be so too!!

Both my NVQs were hard work. Especially level 2 as I had zero experience. Everything can be forged in this modern world but that is not the fault of the qualification but the fault of the people using these fraudsters to get what they want. It is only short lived anywy because anyone who submits a forged NVQ portfolio will be sussed out very quickly.

Out of interest, what was the industry 'norm' to get yourselve the title 'qualified' during your learning days?

 

[Engineer54]

Both my NVQs were hard work. Especially level 2 as I had zero experience. Everything can be forged in this modern world but that is not the fault of the qualification but the fault of the people using these fraudsters to get what they want. It is only short lived anywy because anyone who submits a forged NVQ portfolio will be sussed out very quickly.

Out of interest, what was the industry 'norm' to get yourselve the title 'qualified' during your learning days?

Explain how they are going to be caught out with providing bogus photo's and a willing witness signaturory?? It's human nature to try and cut corners, and the certification methods used in the NVQ3 procedure leaves itself wide open to such abuse....

Full C&G 236 via an indentured apprenticeship, learning your trade skills on the job with fully qualified electrician/technician mentors was the normal way of things in my time.
My training was a lot different though, based on both industrial maintenance and installation via a company trade school and factory (5 factories in all) wide floors with mentors. covering several different departments including MV distribution systems...

 

[Guest125]

Explain how they are going to be caught out with providing bogus photo's and a willing witness signaturory?? It's human nature to try and cut corners, and the certification methods used in the NVQ3 procedure leaves itself wide open to such abuse....

Full C&G 236 via an indentured apprenticeship, learning your trade skills on the job with fully qualified electrician/technician mentors was the normal way of things in my time.
My training was a lot different though, based on both industrial maintenance and installation via a company trade school and factory (5 factories in all) wide floors with mentors. covering several different departments including MV distribution systems...

Because when they turn up to work they won't be good for nothing.

Nothing is an exact science in this world but suggest something better? I can't think of a better way?

 

[Engineer54]

Because when they turn up to work they won't be good for nothing.

Nothing is an exact science in this world but suggest something better? I can't think of a better way?[/QUOTE]


But they will still get taken on as a Gold Card Approved JIB/SJIB graded electrician, and some projects are so big, it could take a while for anyone to be as you say, ''Sussed Out''!!

Read my post 23 again....

 

[jamesie]

i did all my qualifications at nightschool whilst working full time as an electricians mate so i had probably more practical experience than any apprentice.

what is the point in doing the am2 when a percentage of the exam is testing and inspection and i already have the 2391 qualification.

How many guys who have passed there am2 in the last year or so can terminate micc, they dont even do it in the am2. total waste of time.

 

[Guest125]

i did all my qualifications at nightschool whilst working full time as an electricians mate so i had probably more practical experience than any apprentice.

what is the point in doing the am2 when a percentage of the exam is testing and inspection and i already have the 2391 qualification.

How many guys who have passed there am2 in the last year or so can terminate micc, they dont even do it in the am2. total waste of time.

I have been in the game 16 years and have only ever terminated 3 ends. I do not understand why in some circles this is the bench mark to becoming a 'proper sparks'..

 

[Silly Sausage]

i did all my qualifications at nightschool whilst working full time as an electricians mate so i had probably more practical experience than any apprentice.

what is the point in doing the am2 when a percentage of the exam is testing and inspection and i already have the 2391 qualification.

How many guys who have passed there am2 in the last year or so can terminate micc, they dont even do it in the am2. total waste of time.

F knows!

When I did my 2400 (google if need be), if you had 2391, you didn't have to do the I&T part; which was good!

 

[jase]

I got told today that you need NVQ3 to register partP? I took a break from Elecsa and thankfully because I'd been assessed for part P in the last 3 years I didn't need NVQ, but apparently you need it now?

 

[rmc86uk]

numpties that hold a gold "electrician " JIB card or the ones that like you to think they are qualified ?

I'm not sure mate. I've been on a job before for BBES where they had a plasterer who had 2391 testing. Until something went wrong when a guy uncoiled a circuit assuming it was dead and it wasn't. They did some digging and realised he was useless.

It annoys me because when I used to work on agencies there was a few jobs I would never get. Now you look at the site and every Tom, Dick and Harry is on!

 

[Maddison]

I got told today that you need NVQ3 to register partP? I took a break from Elecsa and thankfully because I'd been assessed for part P in the last 3 years I didn't need NVQ, but apparently you need it now?

i think its a good thing. we need barriers like this. its too easy for pretenders

 

[jase]

Yes I agree that it can be quite easy to become part P, but it just occurred to me that if say you were 30- 40 or whatever age, had been employed in one way another all your life and had 2360, 2391, 17th etc and years of experience but had decided to register or go it alone that now you are deemed incompetent because you haven't got NVQ3?

 

[Guest125]

Yes I agree that it can be quite easy to become part P, but it just occurred to me that if say you were 30- 40 or whatever age, had been employed in one way another all your life and had 2360, 2391, 17th etc and years of experience but had decided to register or go it alone that now you are deemed incompetent because you haven't got NVQ3?

I hear you but this has been the same excuse for years (as long as I have been in the game) as to why changes can't happen.

 

[jase]

Guess there will be a time when I'm gonna have to fork out the £600 and spend a few months or whatever it is building a portfolio and doing the NVQ3 eventually.
When you think about it it's no worse than shelling out £250 for a one day course to go from 16th to 17th Ed.
maybe I'll wait till the 18th comes out, get an NVQ and 18th qualified at the same time rather than having to do an 18th update!!!

 

[Maddison]

well a few months ago i heard that something was going to be in place for guys without the NVQ who could instead prove competence by showing a minimum amount of years of experience with references and therefore apply for a JIB card. not sure if that is just hear say. doing an NVQ is enough being an apprentice let alone running a business and putting food on the table..