Find electrician to trace earth leakage

[naylorpd]

OK, so this is a follow-on to my thread about unsatisfactory EICR.

There is a big inconsistency in that the EICR reports all the L-E IR as >100 Megs, but the inspector also comments about earth leakage in two ring mans and one lighting circuit. This seems to be stopping me from replacing the CU and related C2 problems because RCDs will trip constantly (as I understand it).

The guy that did the EICR advised that the earth leakage was measured and the readings were off the scale, and he just didn't change the software defaults on IR (I interpret... he didn't check IR at all).

So my plan of action is to engage someone else to trace the faults, ideally on an hourly rate (probably plus call-out). I need to find that someone (in Reading/Tilehurst) - preferably experienced in fault-finding and not just installation.

What qualifications and experience do I need to look for and ask about? Which is likely to be more suitable, NAPIT or NICEIC?

What's involved in doing this kind of fault-finding? Is it likely to mean disconnecting all the sockets and light switches to test the bare cables?

Thanks

 

[Octopus]

What a shambles.

I suggest you demand a refund and get the EICR done by a spark who is independent of the estate agent

Also what are these earth leakage readings? Do you have the numbers ?

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

What a shambles.

I suggest you demand a refund and get the EICR done by a spark who is independent of the estate agent

Also what are these earth leakage readings? Do you have the numbers ?

There can't be any numbers - they were 'off the scale' ;-)

 

[Dustydazzler]

As above the first thing is what are the actual physically measured earth leakage reading ?

Did he disconnect and unplug all appliances and electronic equipment before testing for leakage to earth

did he use a good quality digital earth leakage meter ?

 

[Pete999]

OK, so this is a follow-on to my thread about unsatisfactory EICR.

There is a big inconsistency in that the EICR reports all the L-E IR as >100 Megs, but the inspector also comments about earth leakage in two ring mans and one lighting circuit. This seems to be stopping me from replacing the CU and related C2 problems because RCDs will trip constantly (as I understand it).

The guy that did the EICR advised that the earth leakage was measured and the readings were off the scale, and he just didn't change the software defaults on IR (I interpret... he didn't check IR at all).

So my plan of action is to engage someone else to trace the faults, ideally on an hourly rate (probably plus call-out). I need to find that someone (in Reading/Tilehurst) - preferably experienced in fault-finding and not just installation.

What qualifications and experience do I need to look for and ask about? Which is likely to be more suitable, NAPIT or NICEIC?

What's involved in doing this kind of fault-finding? Is it likely to mean disconnecting all the sockets and light switches to test the bare cables?

Thanks

Just because an Electrician, is a member of the schemes you mention, doesn't make Him or Her any better than someone who isn't a member of such a Scheme.

 

[naylorpd]

I don't have the readings, just that they were done with an earth leakage tester and were off the scale.

Actually I can live with the EICR because I was intending to replace the CU anyway which will close out two C2s and two C3s, and another two C2s and C3 are easy. I'll ignore the C3 on cables not buried >50mm, it's nonsense. The C3 on cable identification on light switches could perhaps be done at the same time as fault testing, but anyway it's only a C3.

My first suspicion is that he hasn't considered the USB charger sockets properly - just said that he's "not had problems with them before". I put these in last year, but an EICR in 2013 didn't have any earth leakage.

I'm actually in the UK next week so will have a good look around and prepare a plan for where all the sockets are, which circuit they are on etc. I don't currently have a plan like that but it should save time (and hence money) on someone else doing that before starting to test.

I don't think the agent has done anything wrong, the inspector was properly accredited (NAPIT). But the concern is that if I have this shambles from one accredited inspector, how do I find and trust another who will do the job properly?

 

[Wilko]

Oh dear.
Current can only flow in the E if there is a path to it. If the loads are removed then it must be via a fairly low resistance to L to E in the wiring. Let's say 10k Ohms to get 24mA at 240V, which would likely trip the RCD. This low resistance is very obvious in an insulation resistance test. So which is it - 100m Ohms on the report or 10k Ohms ... I'm thinking Mr EICR made a measurement error with either the IR or earth leakage tests.

 

[naylorpd]

Just because an Electrician, is a member of the schemes you mention, doesn't make Him or Her any better than someone who isn't a member of such a Scheme.

In reality no, but members of the public are encouraged to use accredited tradesmen because it supposedly gives them more assurance about the quality of workmanship.
As a landlord I have to be able to show that I took reasonable care in having my home tested (and soon worked on) by someone competent to do the job.

 

[Octopus]

I don't think the agent has done anything wrong, the inspector was properly accredited (NAPIT). But the concern is that if I have this shambles from one accredited inspector, how do I find and trust another who will do the job properly?

I disagree - the agent recommended a trades person who has provided a report that has elements of fiction............

USB sockets won't give "off the scale" earth leakage

You need to get another spark to do a proper EICR.............even if you ask them to "just" inspect the socket and lighting circuits, you would get a "view" of the accuracy of the initial report.

I would offer but you are too far away

 

[westward10]

The problem here is you are trying to get solutions from a load of misinformation. As Doc says above you need to draw a line under this and start again.

 

[Wilko]

If he's IR tested the USB sockets L-E at 500V it could be nasty ...
Testing USB wall mounted sockets - https://uk.megger.com/electrical-tester-contractor-edition/june-2015/testing-usb-wall-mounted-sockets

 

[naylorpd]

As Doc says above you need to draw a line under this and start again.

But it comes back to what criteria I can use to assess whether someone is going to be competent....
- NICEIC?
- NAPIT?
- Checkatrade?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Naylorpd

A video you may find of interest

 

[Octopus]

But it comes back to what criteria I can use to assess whether someone is going to be competent....
- NICEIC?
- NAPIT?
- Checkatrade?

Certainly not checkatrade - loads of feedback is false and they won't publish any negative feedback

I would say personal recommendation is the best way - and try and find somebody very local.....

 

[Dustydazzler]

Personal recommendation and gut feel

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

If he's IR tested the USB sockets L-E at 500V it could be nasty ...
Testing USB wall mounted sockets - https://uk.megger.com/electrical-tester-contractor-edition/june-2015/testing-usb-wall-mounted-sockets

I do always wonder if there is a reason why the SMPS in these sockets isn't fed from the switch. It seems to be a simple solution to the problem and means you're not leaving the power supply permanently on.

 

[Deleted account]

But it comes back to what criteria I can use to assess whether someone is going to be competent....
- NICEIC?
- NAPIT?
- Checkatrade?

I'm embarased to say you can't rely on any of these. You will get good and bad in each of these companies.
I'm part of niceic and know they inform you whether a contractor has relevant qualification in EICR. Not sure about others. Unfortunately even getting a contractor with this qual does not nessisarily mean getting a good experienced spark.

Due to shortage of sparkies in the industry it is flooded with inexperienced or undertrained or miss trained sparks.

Sorry not very useful, but true. Alway go with word of mouth if you can.

I think you have done everything you can to get a decent spark. He is registered and he was recommended by your agent.

 

[naylorpd]

Naylorpd
A video you may find of interest

Yes, interesting in many ways, including seeing an earth leakage test and what caused it. I don't think I've run a nail through anything!

The comment in the last 30 seconds is about where I'm at...how do you know they are not competent if they have a NAPIT number...how do you protect yourself against that...

 

[Deleted account]

Yes, interesting in many ways, including seeing an earth leakage test and what caused it. I don't think I've run a nail through anything!

The comment in the last 30 seconds is about where I'm at...how do you know they are not competent if they have a NAPIT number...how do you protect yourself against that...

Post 15 dustydazzler gives best advice there is.

 

[naylorpd]

If he's IR tested the USB sockets L-E at 500V it could be nasty ...
Testing USB wall mounted sockets - https://uk.megger.com/electrical-tester-contractor-edition/june-2015/testing-usb-wall-mounted-sockets

As he doesn't say that he disconnected the USB sockets, if he did the test he could have fried them? So I should be hoping that he didn't actually do the IR test?

That raises another whole issue - these USB sockets are very readily available at all electrical stores, DIY stores etc. but can't survive a standard IR test at 500V. I bet the average homeowner doesn't know that.