In your country, do you use pipe to run wire through very much?

[Mike Johnson]

Why are American video's so long winded, if I needed pre-wired conduit I'd go to Leroy Merlin and buy the pre-loaded flexible they sell and the rubber gland box's for speed, but I don't like them and use UK gland nuts on solid plastic box's.

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/produits/electricite-domotique/rallonge-multiprise-enrouleur-et-cable-electrique/fil-et-cable-electrique-gaine-prefilee-et-cable-internet/?pedagogicalFilters=%7B%22que-recherchez-vous%22%3A%22Gaine%20%C3%A9lectrique%20pr%C3%A9fil%C3%A9e%22%7D&page=1

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits/boite-d-encastrement-etanche-a-l-air-multicloison-2-poste-s-lexman-e1500205872

https://www.leroymerlin.fr/v3/p/produits/boite-d-encastrement-cloison-pleine-1-poste-s-legrand-e30000

 

[telectrix]

going by OP's pic.,not surprised the USA need sprinklers in new properies when they build them out of highly combustible wood. still, suppose it's amn attempt to save the planet by chopping down trees that pollute the air with oxygen derived from poor old CO2.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Building out of timber in the US also allows the buildings to flex during the hurricane season.

 

[telectrix]

Americans use EMT

ear, metatarsals, throat?

 

[Dustydazzler]

I always thought Emt is America stood for emergency medical technician

 

[Mike Johnson]

Emet means truth in Hebrew, can't think that applies, especially to Trump.

 

[LastManOnline]

That is a nice looking building going up!

I can kind of see the point, EMT is pretty flame containing and it makes inspection easy (EMT yes/no?, not Hmm, is this cable of one of the approved types for this circuit?) but it also looks like a bit of a power-grab by the union, and other cables are quite safe when used appropriately. Still, hopefully least to higher standards than often seen in new builds.

The other think is how often is it fixed wiring that is at fault? I would expect it is the appliances and their flex that cause most fires.

Also another odd difference that I heard from @Megawatt is that USA generally has its GFCI/AFCI at the outlets, where as in the UK/Europe it is normal to have them at the breaker board so they protect the fixed wiring from faults (or limit the risk to DIYers drilling walls for a new shelf) as well as attached equipment.

Don't want to go off topic here but I think that pc1966 has hit on what should be a very, very significant thread "how often has FIXED WIRING caused fires"?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

if we had a lighter gauge steel conduit which could be easily bent with a hand bender and Used grub screw couplers (No more threading) then way more jobs would be done in conduit

In the 20's and 30's, VIR in slip conduit (i.e. unthreaded) was common in UK domestic and light commercial work, with lug-grip and pin-grip fittings. These developed a reputation for not making reliable contact and slip was considered by some writers to be a poor substitute for 'proper' conduit. Some of it was pretty shoddy, and the cheapest tube was not even seam welded and unsuitable for bending. There were some patented fittings that were supposed to give better contact; galvanised tube and fittings would have worked much better but at the time were too expensive.

So there was probably a strong incentive to move on from this inferior conduit system that offered neither the strength and reliable earthing of screwed work, nor the speed and ease of installation of TRS or lead-sheathed (the latter being truly moisture-proof in a way that no slip conduit was).

We had a few proprietary systems a bit like MC, e.g. the Hartley Octopus braided cables, but for whatever reason it was SWA that achieved widespread popularity and adoption into the standards and regs.

 

[davesparks]

there is a system available which uses standard steel conduit and the boxes have plain entries with a set screw to secure the conduit, i think it is called conlok.

It has been used in a couple of buildings locally and I can confirm it looks as bad as it sounds. the connections to the boxes all appear to end up skewed and prone to falling apart with the slightest impact.
[automerge]1599232526[/automerge]
see here for conlok

https://www.demoncato.co.uk/category/conlok-conduit-system/

and they've also come up with 'rollatray' what an amazingly crap looking product that is!

https://www.demoncato.co.uk/rollatray/

 

[LastManOnline]

In domestic situations I've only seen PVC conduit used. Others will be better placed to explain why it is used in every installation, but I always thought the basics were to protect the cable from trowels and also make future repairs or additions more straightforward.

My experience is minimal, but I've replaced cables by pulling through 30 or 40 year old oval conduit and was extremely grateful for it being there.

Yes the pvc pipe will protect from trowels etc but also from chemical damage caused by anything acidic in plaster/cement etc.
Like you up there in N. I. we don't use capping. Also don't know why, but I like it. Looks, easier to install and saves a whole lot of chasing. Chasing walls has come into focus more recently as some engineers are (understandably) unhappy with compromising the integrity of the inner leaf of the cavity. Regarding you point about rewiring it's always an advantage but in reality there is no way the bigger size T&E we now use can be pulled through. Oval conduit is already user unfriendly for rewires. I also don't think it is necessary to allow for future rewires (unless damaged). Pulled out some red and black T&E yesterday (a rare site down here) from the 70,s and it was in mint condition

 

[freddo]

there is a system available which uses standard steel conduit and the boxes have plain entries with a set screw to secure the conduit, i think it is called conlok.

I had a play with that once, didn't like it at all, the pipe entry holes were a bit big and the locking screws are tiny!

 

[Mike Johnson]

"Some Engineers" according to what the wall is used for, if its the inner skin of a cavity wall then is should be made good with a sand and cement this would be in the specification, in most case's the chase is left open for the spreads to fill with plaster, that is why "Some Engineers" are concerned, the inner leaf of a cavity wall can be 3.5N, 7N, or even up to 22N in a 3.5N block a chase filled with Bonding would be close the crushing strength of the block, but the Engineer can not rely on the site management or spreads to follow the specification, the days of the "Resident Engineer" have long gone and was the only way of ensuring the specification was followed, why Structural Engineers no longer have to spend six months on site before becoming qualified has baffled me for some time, this also applies to Architects, neither now days have any experience of what used to be called Buildabilty.

 

[nicebutdim]

Regarding you point about rewiring it's always an advantage but in reality there is no way the bigger size T&E we now use can be pulled through. Oval conduit is already user unfriendly for rewires. I also don't think it is necessary to allow for future rewires (unless damaged).

I doubt the original intention was to provide for future rewiring, but it would be one added benefit in some cases. Obviously not every section of old conduit will serve that purpose, but think of 20mm round conduit dropping to a 1G switch plate - that's going to be easy to pull a cable through if the need arises.

I take it there's no chance of getting two legs of that new Irish T&E through 20mm?

 

[LastManOnline]

I doubt the original intention was to provide for future rewiring, but it would be one added benefit in some cases. Obviously not every section of old conduit will serve that purpose, but think of 20mm round conduit dropping to a 1G switch plate - that's going to be easy to pull a cable through if the need arises.

I take it there's no chance of getting two legs of that new Irish T&E through 20mm?

If you pull 2 ends straight off the cable roller (no kinks), you will push them through a horizontal piece of 20mm pipe OK.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I doubt the original intention was to provide for future rewiring, but it would be one added benefit in some cases. Obviously not every section of old conduit will serve that purpose, but think of 20mm round conduit dropping to a 1G switch plate - that's going to be easy to pull a cable through if the need arises.

Your a lot younger than I thought, steel conduit drops where all about rewiring, using fabric covered cable needed this facility as the cable insulation deteriorated.

 

[freddo]

using fabric covered cable needed this facility as the cable insulation deteriorated.

I've come across quite a lot of both rubber and PVC insulated fabric covered conduit cable here, and it is often in excellent condition! Of course old rubber cables should be replaced as a matter or course...

 

[Mike Johnson]

There are always exceptions, but as you say you should always replace your rubber.

 

[Grant1987]

Your a lot younger than I thought, steel conduit drops where all about rewiring, using fabric covered cable needed this facility as the cable insulation deteriorated.

I’d disagree with you steel conduit is used to enable the use of single core cabling to provide a suitable means of protection and also enhance the space of wiring in single core cable you wudn be wiring a new build council office in twin and earth through galv it is single core so I don’t think age is a factor in your post

 

[Mike Johnson]

It is when you take into account when conduit drops where the normal thing to do, all switch's and sockets where cabled by a steel conduit vertical drop form the roof or floor void above or below, there where never any horizontal or zones, it was just straight drops to the sunken box, but as you say T&E did not exist it was always single core cable. It also made it simple, you just did not drill above or below a switch or socket.

 

[Grant1987]

It is when you take into account when conduit drops where the normal thing to do, all switch's and sockets where cabled by a steel conduit vertical drop form the roof or floor void above or below, there where never any horizontal or zones, it was just straight drops to the sunken box, but as you say T&E did not exist it was always single core cable.

All the drops I have done have gone into steel trunking and required a 90 degree bend sometimes included a set or double or even bubble at worst case lol I suppose different jobs have different specs but my experience with galv is that it’s galv all the way

 

[telectrix]

never got the hang of that steel conduit stuff. put it on the bender. hit it with a sledgehammer to bend it... it squashed flat.

 

[Mike Johnson]

To be said in a broad Yorkshire accent: Eye when I where a lad, who'd of thought I'd be on ere talking about conduit drops in galvanised steel.

 

[Grant1987]

never got the hang of that steel conduit stuff. put it on the bender. hit it with a sledgehammer to bend it... it squashed flat.

A man of your experience should know better ?‍
[automerge]1599252909[/automerge]

To be said in a broad Yorkshire accent: Eye when I where a lad, who'd of thought I'd be on ere talking about conduit drops in galvanised steel.

Who thought that times would change hey

 

[nicebutdim]

Your a lot younger than I thought, steel conduit drops where all about rewiring, using fabric covered cable needed this facility as the cable insulation deteriorated.

I can only comment on that which I've encountered in domestic properties in NI and have very limited experience of this subject.

In my lifetime it was originally oval conduit and latterly round. These have all been one form of plastic or other.

 

[Grant1987]

I can only comment on that which I've encountered in domestic properties in NI and have very limited experience of this subject.

In my lifetime it was originally oval conduit and latterly round. These have all been one form of plastic or other.

You don’t tend to have steel conduit in domestic properties mate, oval pvc conduit or capping is more common, steel conduit is more commercial, industrial although I wudn be surprised if domestic rewires in 10 years time will have to be done in steel conduit with less money that is currently paid for a Rewire is disgraceful the lack of appreciation shown for sparks in most cases

 

[Mike Johnson]

Whipersnappers.

 

[Grant1987]

Whipersnappers.

Haha great ??

 

[nicebutdim]

You don’t tend to have steel conduit in domestic properties mate, oval pvc conduit or capping is more common, steel conduit is more commercial, industrial although I wudn be surprised if domestic rewires in 10 years time will have to be done in steel conduit with less money that is currently paid for a Rewire is disgraceful the lack of appreciation shown for sparks in most cases

The thread seems to be covering quite a range of situations, but I'd originally commented on posts that related to the slightly different practices employed in NI. Here capping is unheard of in domestic properies and PVC conduit is used anywhere that cables run in solid walls.

 

[Grant1987]

The thread seems to be covering quite a range of situations, but I'd originally commented on posts that related to the slightly different practices employed in NI. Here capping is unheard of in domestic properies and PVC conduit is used anywhere that cables run in solid walls.

What? Capping unheard of? PVC conduit run “IN” solid walls not “ON” is that what you do in Ireland?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yes do it the easiest way you can, nailing a PVC capping over a T&E and calling it protected is the way the industry goes now days, it took a lot of skill and dedication to put in a steel conduit, even if it was just a straight drop or rise out of the floor, but as with everything, time is the biggest factor now days, speaking of which it's time I went to bed, goodnight all.

 

[nicebutdim]

What? Capping unheard of? PVC conduit run “IN” solid walls not “ON” is that what you do in Ireland?

Conduit chased into walls, which the rest of the UK seems to think is crazy.

I can not state with absolute certainty that every spark works to the same standards, but accepted practice is to chase for conduit (pvc) and boxes before any cables are run.


To expand on this; on new builds the electrician will usually mark up walls and bring in another company to do the chasing as that's cheaper than doing so with their own time.

 

[Grant1987]

What? Capping unheard of? PVC conduit run “IN” solid walls not “ON” is that what you do in Ireland?

Yes do it the easiest way you can, nailing a PVC capping over a T&E and calling it protected is the way the industry goes now days, it took a lot of skill and dedication to put in a steel conduit, even if it was just a straight drop or rise out of the floor, but as with everything, time is the biggest factor now days, speaking of which it's time I went to bed, goodnight all.

steel conduit in domestic is not normal just capping is, goodnight ?
[automerge]1599255269[/automerge]

Conduit chased into walls, which the rest of the UK seems to think is crazy.

I can not state with absolute certainty that every spark works to the same standards, but accepted practice is to chase for conduit and boxes before any cables are run.

Depends what your talking about? There is a whole variety of specs some have surface conduit some have buried but yes all the containment is generally run in prior to installing cable that’s usually on the schedule of works and timescales but not in domestic works? Not talking about domestic rewires surely?

 

[nicebutdim]

Depends what your talking about? There is a whole variety of specs some have surface conduit some have buried but yes all the containment is generally run in prior to installing cable that’s usually on the schedule of works and timescales but not in domestic works? Not talking about domestic rewires surely?

I've never known any electrician in NI to not use conduit when running buried cable down solid walls in a domestic property, whether it be a new installation or a rewire. It's standard practice over here.

 

[Grant1987]

I've never known any electrician in NI to not use conduit when running buried cable down solid walls in a domestic property, whether it be a new installation or a rewire. It's standard practice over here.

Wow! Conduit all the way over there then! Steel or pvc?
[automerge]1599255974[/automerge]

I've never known any electrician in NI to not use conduit when running buried cable down solid walls in a domestic property, whether it be a new installation or a rewire. It's standard practice over here.

Have the sparks heard of capping?

 

[Zerax]

@pc1966 you just taught me something new. I didn’t know that they even made different colors of conduit.

Different coloured conduit... but all their currency is the same colour ???

 

[nicebutdim]

Wow! Conduit all the way over there then! Steel or pvc?
[automerge]1599255974[/automerge]

Have the sparks heard of capping?

PVC.

To be clear; I'm commenting only on domestic properties as I have no experience of commercial installations.

This house is three years old and round PVC conduit will be bushed into every box. There would be no issue with undercutting on price as every electrician will be expected to do this. As one previous poster had commented; an electrician would be laughed or thrown off site if they placed capping over cables, in place of conduit.

 

[Grant1987]

PVC.

To be clear; I'm commenting only on domestic properties as I have no experience of commercial installations.

This house is three years old and round PVC conduit will be bushed into every box. There would be no issue with undercutting on price as every electrician will be expected to do this. As one previous poster had commented; an electrician would be laughed or thrown off site if they placed capping over cables, in place of conduit.

Thrown off site? No you mean if the spark didn’t follow the spec for the job in question then he would be thrown off site. If it was a requirement to provide cabling in pvc conduit prior to commencement of works then of course that would be what the spark would do. So why would capping be laughed at? We are clearly on different wave lengths here. What about your occupied social rewires which I was doing in 1 day with a 3 man team? Do your sparks do that also?

 

[nicebutdim]

Thrown off site? No you mean if the spark didn’t follow the spec for the job in question then he would be thrown off site. If it was a requirement to provide cabling in pvc conduit prior to commencement of works then of course that would be what the spark would do. So why would capping be laughed at? We are clearly on different wave lengths here. What about your occupied social rewires which I was doing in 1 day with a 3 man team? Do your sparks do that also?

I do not know whether or not any regulation mandates the use of conduit in such circumstances here, but it is standard practice.

Others will be better placed to comment as my experience is extremely limited, but I've never seen capping used over here or cables buried directly in plaster. This practice extends back at least over many decades.

 

[Grant1987]

I do not know whether or not any regulation mandates the use of conduit in such circumstances here, but it is standard practice.

Others will be better placed to comment as my experience is extremely limited, but I've never seen capping used over here or cables buried directly in plaster. This practice extends back at least over many decades.

Well you sound very experienced in my eyes and good that you voice your opinion, there are many regulations I can’t be arsed to go into all of them but to simplify it is to have rcd protection and all is well then. I’m sure most on here will agree that whilst carrying out a Rewire On domestic property will use capping Or oval conduit, unless it’s surface mounted and in that case it is trunking and with new regs fitted with fire clips.

 

[nicebutdim]

Well you sound very experienced in my eyes and good that you voice your opinion, there are many regulations I can’t be arsed to go into all of them but to simplify it is to have rcd protection and all is well then. I’m sure most on here will agree that whilst carrying out a Rewire On domestic property will use capping Or oval conduit, unless it’s surface mounted and in that case it is trunking and with new regs fitted with fire clips.

I wouldn't argue against practices commonly employed in other parts of the UK, although the use of conduit here does have certain advantages - primarily the ease with which a cable could often be replaced if necessary.

 

[Grant1987]

I wouldn't argue against practices commonly employed in other parts of the UK, although the use of conduit here does have certain advantages - primarily the ease with which a cable could often be replaced if necessary.

If it’s been rewired then shudn need to be replaced same thing with capping really so no advantage with conduit

 

[pc1966]

Different coloured conduit... but all their currency is the same colour ???

Worse - the same size as well!
[automerge]1599311851[/automerge]

This house is three years old and round PVC conduit will be bushed into every box. There would be no issue with undercutting on price as every electrician will be expected to do this. As one previous poster had commented; an electrician would be laughed or thrown off site if they placed capping over cables, in place of conduit.

It is good practice for many reasons!

And if it is part of local building regulations, or standard terms of contracts to install stuff, then you get it done properly everywhere. Sadly the folk putting stuff in (or defining how it should be done) are rarely the folks having to make repairs or rewires in the future.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Back to the Buildabilty issue, "Quantity Surveyors" are the bane of all trades.

 

[Megawatt]

Different coloured conduit... but all their currency is the same colour ???

Yes but it fits nice in the wallet ?

 

[norcal]

For some more pipe work, check out conduit ---- at reddit.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Megawatt]

For some more pipe work, check out conduit ---- at reddit.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

@norcal I’m not impressed when I run conduit there is no discrepancies in the gaps between my conduit and I measure center to center. Some of it looked good but the conduit on the right coming out of the top of that one Panel personally I would have made them tear it out and start over.

 

[Mike Johnson]

For some more pipe work, check out conduit ---- at reddit.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

Personally I thought the changes from vertical to horizontal are a work of art, thanks for posting.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Would it not be better to run fewer but bigger conduits...?
I have seen videos of these type of conduit installations in America with dozens of small gauge conduits running from box to box with one cable per conduit.
seems such a waste of raw materials (not to mention labour) when you could run 4 or 5 circuits in one slightly bigger conduit....

 

[Mike Johnson]

It would not just be a slightly bigger conduit to accommodate 4 or 5 circuits if you kept to the requirements for % dia free space inside the conduit.

 

[Dustydazzler]

there is that , also drawing multiple cables together runs the risk of burning / chaffing the basic insulation.
i still can’t help thinking if I have to get 5 cables (circuits) from A to B there must be a better solution than 5 completely separate conduit pipes...