when did the impact driver become the tool of choice to do terminals up ?

[Dustydazzler]

Pretty much every celeb sparks on Youtube and every celeb diy training video on how to do a board change shows the sparks using an impact driver

When did this become the norm ?

 

[Dustydazzler]

a Diyer doing their own board change could seriously mangle the terminations using an impact driver

 

[littlespark]

Not watched… but is it an impact, or a torque setting on screwdriver?

I think you can get torque adapters for battery drills/drivers that are as exact as the hand held torque drivers from WERA/ WIHA ….. which is the preferred method of tightening terminals

 

[snowhead]

a Diyer doing their own board change could seriously mangle the terminations using an impact driver

ANYONE doing a board change could seriously mangle the terminations using an impact driver.

An imact driver is not needed and is not suitable for small machine screws, it's designed for woodscrews into wood.
It rates equally with hammers for being mis-used, in fact it may top the list of mis used-tools, used by TOOLS.

If it must be a powered tool then an electric screwdriver with torque control, set to the correct torque.

 

[loz2754]

Deja vu anyone?

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[Avo Mk8]

There are electric screwdrivers, and there are impact drivers. Usually they are both settable for torque (hopefully calibrated!), but an electric screwdriver does not have an impact action, just a torque limiter.
To be fair, factory production lines have been using pneumatic or electric screwdrivers for years, and I wouldn't be surprised if our accessories and breakers are assembled with them. Products assembled by robots will be using such!

I think the problem is that some people use the wrong tool!

PS: interestingly most of the electric screwdrivers I've just been looking at (eg WIHA) seem be 3.00nm upwards rather than starting lower. The manufacturers preferred torque range (say 2.0nm upwards) is covered by the non powered products.
I guess many people go over 3nm anyway!

 

[pc1966]

I think the problem is that some people use the wrong tool!

Some people are a wrong tool!

Seriously, there is a world of difference between a production line power tool and a generic impact driver. I did not watch the videos but see one of the Milwaukie impact wrenches that is probably the same model that I have any it will happily mangle a M6 mild steel screw to the point of shearing the bolt even on the lowest setting. You might get away with running screws down but it takes only a moment to ruin the terminal.

I would fail anyone using such a tool. The manufacturer's instructions warn against it in most cases and most of those tools have no meaningful calibration of torque-limiting. Also the modern ones that do (like my drill-style Milwaukie driver) limit the motor current so there is huge inertial to be stopped - resulting in far higher peak torque than it is set for and very different from the tools that have a mechanical limiter (like my old Makita drill).

 

[UNG]

The misuse of the impact wrench in the tyre bay is one of my annoyances they run the wheel nuts / bolts on to overtight and then use the torque wrench that instantly clicks to confirm the right torque. I remember many years ago stopping to help a woman that had a puncture the wheel had been fitted a few weeks before and the standard wrench in the car wouldn't move the wheel bolts, I always have a long 30" breaker bar and a selection of sockets to fit wheel nuts in my vehicle so expected it to be easy to get the wheel bolts moving and it wasn't I ended up jumping on the bar and eventually got them moving I suggested she got some new bolts as they had been excessively overtightened and used a different tyre bay to get the puncture fixed if that was the way the one she had used fitted wheels

 

[freddo]

Last week I had to completely destroy a 3 pole MCB to get it out of a distribution board. I undid the screws (needed an impact driver) but the square clamps had turned hourglass shaped and firmly clamped the sides of the busbar fingers. I had to drill the MCB to remove most of it then I could access the clamps and turn them to free them. Not an easy task at all. I was not happy. A quick check and it appears all the MCBs in the board have been installed like this and are now effectively permanently installed. The only practical solution now is to replace the MCBs and pan assembly.

 

[Julie.]

The misuse of the impact wrench in the tyre bay is one of my annoyances they run the wheel nuts / bolts on to overtight and then use the torque wrench that instantly clicks to confirm the right torque. I remember many years ago stopping to help a woman that had a puncture the wheel had been fitted a few weeks before and the standard wrench in the car wouldn't move the wheel bolts, I always have a long 30" breaker bar and a selection of sockets to fit wheel nuts in my vehicle so expected it to be easy to get the wheel bolts moving and it wasn't I ended up jumping on the bar and eventually got them moving I suggested she got some new bolts as they had been excessively overtightened and used a different tyre bay to get the puncture fixed if that was the way the one she had used fitted wheels

My biggest bug bear as well.

They must be as thick as two short planks to do this - but they all do it!

I haven't been stuck like this, but that's mainly because when we have anything done on any of our vehicles, we immediately release each nut and re-torque it correctly.

By chance the first time we started to remove it with the standard in-car jack/wrench and couldn't shift one!

Ended up with a 1 metre breaker bar with a length of pipe on that to release the wheel nuts.

Hence why we release and re-torque each time now.

 

[littlespark]

Do any circuit breaker manufacturer actually state on their instructions not to use impact?
They do have torque settings.. but is that enough to say these so called sparks are not following MI?

 

[Petej999]

Deja vu anyone?

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BUTCHERY, Cowboy practice

 

[snowhead]

Yes, L-S, from the video linked above,

 

[LukeD]

I have a 10.8 Festool "kitchen fitters dream" drill. ITs not impact . Impact is a joke to use .But a normal drill with good adjustment is Ok I think. You just have to do a test run and note what setting on the drill matches a Torque screw driver

 

[littlespark]

Yes, L-S, from the video linked above,

So if you’re using anything other than a hand held torque screwdriver, or adaptor, then you are not following manufacturers instructions…

And I know many of us use the feel of our right hand to tighten things up…. But how close to the stated values can a right hand get
(Yes, I also know some of us are left handed… I am myself, but could never find a left handed screwdriver)


I have a WIHA torque driver, which has increments marked every .2 nM…. But values are normally a full nM or on a .5

So I have sit halfway between 2.4, and 2.6 for example for 2.5

 

[pc1966]

You can get electric screwdrivers specifically designed not to over-tighten terminals such as this:

E-screwdriver, starter set speedE® I electric

Product description Anyone who spends much of the day fastening screws knows how much time it takes and the considerable strain it causes to wrists…

www.wiha.com

But not cheap!

 

[littlespark]

You can get electric screwdrivers specifically designed not to over-tighten terminals such as this:

E-screwdriver, starter set speedE® I electric

Product description Anyone who spends much of the day fastening screws knows how much time it takes and the considerable strain it causes to wrists…

www.wiha.com

But not cheap!

Yeh… I’ve got one. Hardly been used.

Would be good on second fixing an entire house, just running up the 3.5 screws

I got the SpeedE, not the SpeedE 2 which has a bit more power.

 

[swaRRR]

If you pay attention you can use them to get them almost tight and then nip up with a hand driver but personally i'll only untighten with an impact and only when it's something like eg a new isolator being fitted, i won't untighten when it's already got a termination in it. Dunno why it's just a little time saver.

 

[GBDamo]

Pretty much every celeb sparks on Youtube and every celeb diy training video on how to do a board change shows the sparks using an impact driver

When did this become the norm ?

It's more a case of using a impact driver as a powered screwdriver. Tighten to the point the cables are held then run down with the torque driver.

It takes a lot of strain of the wrists.

Now, I know some will never accept it but its not really all that controversial. You can rip the guts out of an MCB terminal with a hand held screwdriver, you don't because you don't over tighten them, exactly the same with an impact. You just don't rattle them.

 

[LukeD]

It's more a case of using a impact driver as a powered screwdriver. Tighten to the point the cables are held then run down with the torque driver.

It takes a lot of strain of the wrists.

Now, I know some will never accept it but its not really all that controversial. You can rip the guts out of an MCB terminal with a hand held screwdriver, you don't because you don't over tighten them, exactly the same with an impact. You just don't rattle them.

Its how a impact works.... its not smooth or subtle .It smashes its way until its stopped . Drill has far more control and less chances of damage

 

[littlespark]

So much easier for a weak wristed apprentice to ruin a circuit breaker or two using an impact, than they can with your screwdriver.... a.k.a their chisel.


This subject creeps up on the forum time and time again, and it always seems to be a celeb on youtube showing how fast they can be...

Using an impact to tighten up mcb terminals shouldn't be done....
Its like using a boxing glove to type on a computer..... and we all know someone that does that!

 

[GBDamo]

Its how a impact works.... its not smooth or subtle .It smashes its way until its stopped . Drill has far more control and less chances of damage

No it isn't, it has a variable trigger or mine does.
It also doesn't "impact" until it reaches a certain resistance which engages the "hammer".

The "hammer" is actually two parts, one anvil attached to the bit holder and another spring-loaded anvil is driven by the motor. Only when enough resistance is met by the fixing will sufficient torque be applied by the motor for the spring to be compressed allowing the the anvils to ride over each other and apply the hammer action.

There's some good animation in this video that shows the anvils in motion.

I don't have this exact model and have to rely on my finger.

You can be surprisingly subtle with an impact before it starts to impact.

 

[ferg]

It's more a case of using a impact driver as a powered screwdriver. Tighten to the point the cables are held then run down with the torque driver.

It takes a lot of strain of the wrists.

Now, I know some will never accept it but its not really all that controversial. You can rip the guts out of an MCB terminal with a hand held screwdriver, you don't because you don't over tighten them, exactly the same with an impact. You just don't rattle them.

I have to agree with this, as it happens I don't do it this way but I find it hard to argue with someone that does.

I think everyone is looking for ways to take the strain off the various bits of the body that we abuse daily and make things that little bit quicker.

There is a world of difference between using an impact on it's lowest setting to do the first bit and actually using the impact setting to tighten the terminals all the way.

 

[swaRRR]

No it isn't, it has a variable trigger or mine does.
It also doesn't "impact" until it reaches a certain resistance which engages the "hammer".

The "hammer" is actually two parts, one anvil attached to the bit holder and another spring-loaded anvil is driven by the motor. Only when enough resistance is met by the fixing will sufficient torque be applied by the motor for the spring to be compressed allowing the the anvils to ride over each other and apply the hammer action.

There's some good animation in this video that shows the anvils in motion.

I don't have this exact model and have to rely on my finger.

You can be surprisingly subtle with an impact before it starts to impact.

Exact

 

[freddo]

The "hammer" is actually two parts, one anvil attached to the bit holder and another spring-loaded anvil is driven by the motor. Only when enough resistance is met by the fixing will sufficient torque be applied by the motor for the spring to be compressed allowing the the anvils to ride over each other and apply the hammer action.

That's old news now, oil pulse impact drivers are the way forward! Super quiet and low vibration as well as massive power in a small unit. I love my Milwaukee 12V oil driver, it will drive screws with tremendous force, it has a lot more control that my previous one. I don't think I'd use it for tightening terminals though.

 

[GBDamo]

I don't think I'd use it for tightening terminals though.

Why, in these threads, do the anti camp always refer to 'tightening' when the pro camp always, and without fail, talk about running up, or nipping up prior to fully tightening.

Nobody, sane, is talking about tightening using an impact driver. That's not to deny 'they' are out there.

Equally useful is loosening, for example running open all the terminals on the bottom of MCBs before offering up the bus bar.

It's just progress, people making use of new technologies to make life easier.

 

[freddo]

Why, in these threads, do the anti camp always refer to 'tightening' when the pro camp always, and without fail, talk about running up, or nipping up prior to fully tightening.

I said I wouldn't use it for tightening, I didn't mention the other things... I wish I took a photo of the neutral bar that was returned to the wholesalers last year. The bloke installing it was tightening with an impact driver. So much force was applied that the bar split between a large section of the wire entry holes.

 

[7029 dave]

Its unnecessary to use such tools just dam right lazy.

 

[GBDamo]

Its unnecessary to use such tools just dam right lazy.

Show us you bit n brace then, Luddite.

 

[timhoward]

Show us you bit n brace then, Luddite.

You want one of these....

 

[GBDamo]

You want one of these....

View attachment 101037

Remember getting a "good hiding" for knackering my old man's. Think it was either light sabre or sonic screwdriver related tomfoolery.

 

[LukeD]

No it isn't, it has a variable trigger or mine does.
It also doesn't "impact" until it reaches a certain resistance which engages the "hammer".

The "hammer" is actually two parts, one anvil attached to the bit holder and another spring-loaded anvil is driven by the motor. Only when enough resistance is met by the fixing will sufficient torque be applied by the motor for the spring to be compressed allowing the the anvils to ride over each other and apply the hammer action.

There's some good animation in this video that shows the anvils in motion.

I don't have this exact model and have to rely on my finger.

You can be surprisingly subtle with an impact before it starts to impact.

And at the point of impacting will it have reached the correct torque and what happens in that split second etc where its still running ? A small drill with controlled torque points and a nice action trigger is still superior as it will stop when told to !

 

[GBDamo]

And at the point of impacting will it have reached the correct torque and what happens in that split second etc where its still running ? A small drill with controlled torque points and a nice action trigger is still superior as it will stop when told to !

You don't get anywhere near the point of impacting, it's called trigger discipline, the more you practice the better you get.

I can fix a plastic back box with it as well and without smashing the living love out of it.

My dentistry with it is still a work in progress though, not many willing volunteers to practice on.

 

[Megawatt]

Pretty much every celeb sparks on Youtube and every celeb diy training video on how to do a board change shows the sparks using an impact driver

When did this become the norm ?

Dusty I can’t answer that but the young bucks have all there tools that is battery powered. We didn’t have technology in the old days. I’m not sure if they know how to use real tools without batteries.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Dusty I can’t answer that but the young bucks have all there tools that is battery powered. We didn’t have technology in the old days. I’m not sure if they know how to use real tools without batteries.

I think is the problem

The other day I watched a young lad trying to change a plug top using his 18v impact drill

 

[pc1966]

I think is the problem

The other day I watched a young lad trying to change a plug top using his 18v impact drill

W.T.F?

Really, you have to wonder at times

 

[LukeD]

You don't get anywhere near the point of impacting, it's called trigger discipline, the more you practice the better you get.

I can fix a plastic back box with it as well and without smashing the living love out of it.

My dentistry with it is still a work in progress though, not many willing volunteers to practice on.

So unless you finish with a torque driver .How do you know you are within the level the RCBO is made for etc ? With a drill set with different torques , you can measure each...Or as I did , email festool and ask them !! Chances are if you took 100 people and asked them to use the festool and a impact , they will get it a lot closer with the festool etc ? As they cannot make the drill go past each setting just by using the trigger

 

[Dustydazzler]

No 2 impact drivers are the same either

I have a 18v Erbauer impact and an old 18v Hitchi impact and if I set them to say mid torque on the dial they will both screw to very different tightnesses

I reckon I could do a complete board swap with my old Hitachi as its trigger is very sensitive so I feel fairly confident I wouldn't mangle and terminals but the Erbauer is a bit all or nothing with its trigger so one false move and goodbye Rcbo screwhead

 

[ferg]

I have a Dewalt one which on it's lowest setting won't impact.

Like others I can use it to mount hard plastic boxes without worrying about cracking them.

 

[GBDamo]

So unless you finish with a torque driver.

I think my first/second post on this thread states that's exactly what I do.

How do you know you are within the level the RCBO is made for etc ?

Because my torque screwdriver is calibrated and the correct and recommended tool.

With a drill set with different torques , you can measure each...Or as I did , email festool and ask them !! Chances are if you took 100 people and asked them to use the festool and a impact , they will get it a lot closer with the festool etc ? As they cannot make the drill go past each setting just by using the trigger

If that works for you and gives you the correct results then crack on but don't assume someone doing something differently to you doesn't know what they're doing.

There is, after all, more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[littlespark]

There is, after all, more than one way to skin a cat.

Don’t tell me you use an impact driver!

 

[LukeD]

I think my first/second post on this thread states that's exactly what I do.



Because my torque screwdriver is calibrated and the correct and recommended tool.


If that works for you and gives you the correct results then crack on but don't assume someone doing something differently to you doesn't know what they're doing.

There is, after all, more than one way to skin a cat.

I agree! I just think a drill with 1-11 torque settings is a better option

 

[GBDamo]

Don’t tell me you use an impact driver!

Not always I but have, in combination with a torque screwdriver.

 

[Petej999]

Not watched… but is it an impact, or a torque setting on screwdriver?

I think you can get torque adapters for battery drills/drivers that are as exact as the hand held torque drivers from WERA/ WIHA ….. which is the preferred method of tightening terminals

Still as rough as a Badgers wotnot way of doing it

Don’t tell me you use an impact driver!

If he is a Butcher he still does, but knot knowing him I can't be sure

 

[ferg]

Not always I but have, in combination with a torque screwdriver.

I'm trying very hard not to picture where exactly you put the torque driver while you skinned the cat with the impact driver.

 

[Petej999]

Pretty much every celeb sparks on Youtube and every celeb diy training video on how to do a board change shows the sparks using an impact driver

When did this become the norm ?

Celeb Spark??????????????? Celeb Money grabber you surely mean Mate, cus most of these "Celeb Sparks" have a cheek calling themselves Sparks, the Trade is dying a slow death.

 

[LukeD]

CAT DX71B 18V 200N.m 3 Speed Impact Driver - BODY ONLY | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CAT DX71B 18V 200N.m 3 Speed Impact Driver - BODY ONLY at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

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Cat Impact driver !

 

[UNG]

Celeb Spark??????????????? Celeb Money grabber you surely mean Mate, cus most of these "Celeb Sparks" have a cheek calling themselves Sparks, the Trade is dying a slow death.

Couldn't agree more and the slow death is rapidly speeding up

 

[Dustydazzler]

Couldn't agree more and the slow death is rapidly speeding up

Some of the new build lash-up wiring i have seen over the past 5-10 years , the trade died along time ago

 

[7029 dave]

Some of the new build lash-up wiring i have seen over the past 5-10 years , the trade died along time ago

Bloody disgraceful, definitely saw the best times in the late 70's to the late 80's IMO