Some pics from a FULL rewire.

[GLENNSPARK]

Just some of the things done by a so called qualified electrician in Romford. And that was after 9months and 2 re-visits to correct and re-finish the job.
View attachment 19860View attachment 19862View attachment 19863View attachment 19864View attachment 19865View attachment 19866

ford.

their just nobheads arn`t they...

 

[telectrix]

pic 3 dangerous code C1. no excuse for the sake of a couple of bob for blanks.

 

[trev]

P3 wouldn't open. Missing blanks?

 

[Jdsparky]

I like where he labels sockets up as "plugs", nice bit of customer speak right there

 

[ExLeccy]

And no blanking plates in CU, nor protection on 2.5mm cable down wall, nor protection on cable to consumer unit. Shoddy work shows a careless worker. I have not looked further under floors and in loft. Some of the places are now inaccessible. If I had been 20years younger I would have found him and taken him to task very strongly by using my East end upbringing.

 

[Octopus]

And no blanking plates in CU, nor protection on 2.5mm cable down wall, nor protection on cable to consumer unit. Shoddy work shows a careless worker. I have not looked further under floors and in loft. Some of the places are now inaccessible. If I had been 20years younger I would have found him and taken him to task very strongly by using my East end upbringing.

So was he a scam member? did he leave a cert? have you seen it?

 

[shanky887614]

ive seen a guy in this state do a better install

[video=youtube;8YfchQ6Dckk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YfchQ6Dckk[/video]

 

[ExLeccy]

Probably a scam member. He issued an ICM4 'certificate'. Does that mean he is not a member of NICIEC. He did say he was qualified to test other installations. I don't fully understand the qualification and NICIEC membership requirements. I thought all electricians had to be a member. Just like Gas Safe for gas work.

 

[shanky887614]

Probably a scam member. He issued an ICM4 'certificate'. Does that mean he is not a member of NICIEC. He did say he was qualified to test other installations. I don't fully understand the qualification and NICIEC membership requirements. I thought all electricians had to be a member. Just like Gas Safe for gas work.

no you don't have to. you can simply contact building control to certify your work for a fee.

a lot of firms join a scam because its a lot cheaper and more convenient

 

[GLENNSPARK]

pic 3 dangerous code C1. no excuse for the sake of a couple of bob for blanks.

and not just this lack of understanding on new install either....
like i said the other day had a look at a report on an install in leeds that someone had carried out....
amongst other rubbish and falseties he`d given missing blanks a 3.....

 

[Rockingit]

Sadly the NICEIC's (and the others) argument about checking work (the 'driving' scenario) falls over because it assumes a base level of competence to start with. If you have been driving for 20/30/60 years it is reasonable to assume (yes, there will be exceptions, I know) that when behind the wheel you know what you are doing. It is not the same for an 18yr old just passed his test, and this is reflected in his insurance premiums.

Therefore, the analogy only actually works if the least qualified and shortest period served (which, for arguments sake we'll call a Electrical Trainee) are more closely supervised than someone who did all his quals and has continuously served for the last 20+ years. The latter then yes you CAN just inspect once a year, but the former I'd be wanting to have the inspector drop round at least every five notifications 'when next passing'. All it would take is five minutes to do a visual.

 

[Geordie Spark]

waking up next to me is a nightmare according to 'er indoors.

Posting on the same forum as you can be too!! :hump:

 

[NDG Elecs]

On a technical note, where have 4-5 of the bl00dy neutrals gone to in the DB piccy. Looks to be approx 12-13 lives and only 8 blues.... puzzled...

Just looked again...think camera angle and the mess of cables have tricked me!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Dear Forum - I have only just come across this forum thanks to someone sending a PM message.

I can assure you NICEIC takes very seriously any complaint made against one of our contractors. If the customer makes a complaint direct we will carry out a full investigation, send out an engineer to do an inspection and, if required, order the contractor to rectify the work to the required standard.

No complaint has been made on this occasion from the customer but if Zeddess would like to PM me the details of the contractor he/she believes carried out the work we can carry out an investigation and speak to the contractor direct if they are found to be at fault.
NICEIC operates the most robust and rigorous qualification for registration requirements in the UK. This includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of a representative sample of the companies work, assessment at their premises to ensure they have documentation and records, employs only competent persons to carry out electrical work, has evidence of required insurances and an, inspection of their equipment and premises. Most importantly, it includes a requirement for regular periodic inspections and assessments of organisations and principle named individuals to ensure standards are continually met.

However, in the same way that theDVLA cannot oversee every journey carried out by those with a driving licence, the NICEIC is not in a position to test every electrical installation itself. The fact that a contractor has been approved to work to best industry standards on assessment cannot, regrettably, rule out the possibility that a contractor, or someone working for them, may be negligent in relation to a specific electrical installation in the future. just as drivers have a duty of care to respect the rules of the road at all times, so do electricians assessed by NICEIC.

If a contractor is found to be guilty of not keeping within the rules and regulations for enrolement, they will be de-registered immediately. Last year we de-registered 518 contractors who failed to meet the strict requirements of enrolment .

I hope this answers some of the forum’s queries and as mentioned will be happy to deal with Zedess’ complaint. I would also urge any other contractors who come across similar incidents to get in touch with NICEIC direct – as we can only act on these issues if we are informed of them. Email [email protected]

Finally, apologies for lack of interaction on the forum lately – NICEIC will endeavor to check and respond, where appropriate, more regularly in the future.

well the entry assessment for any of the schemes is hardly taxing in any way, shape or form is it....after all its not meant to be...is it....

but feels its in a position to instruct folk on max. Ra values etc

 

[Deleted member 9648]

@ NICEIC ENGINEER.
If this work was carried out by an NIC approved contractor I am appalled that the NIC has allowed a contractor capable of such shoddy standards to be enrolled. I have worked for two NICEIC approved contractors continuously since 1978 and have always believed the NIC enforced rigorous standards. Your answer to this thread is frankly laughable, for all the fine words you are clearly unable to see the truth,that your scheme is not working if cowboys like this carry the NIC flag of 'excellence'.
Where does that leave bona-fida NIC contractors who uphold the standards they believe the NIC represents?......it leaves them tarred with the same brush,the lowest common denominator is always the one they will be associated with.
And as for the myriad Joe public viewing this forum......well they now know that employing an NICEIC contractor gives them no more assurance than employing Bob from down the Pub.
Thanks for that NICEIC....you have destroyed the credibility of a great organisation in your pursuit of profit.

 

[Octopus]

@ NICEIC ENGINEER.
If this work was carried out by an NIC approved contractor I am appalled that the NIC has allowed a contractor capable of such shoddy standards to be enrolled. I have worked for two NICEIC approved contractors continuously since 1978 and have always believed the NIC enforced rigorous standards. Your answer to this thread is frankly laughable, for all the fine words you are clearly unable to see the truth,that your scheme is not working if cowboys like this carry the NIC flag of 'excellence'.
Where does that leave bona-fida NIC contractors who uphold the standards they believe the NIC represents?......it leaves them tarred with the same brush,the lowest common denominator is always the one they will be associated with.
And as for the myriad Joe public viewing this forum......well they now know that employing an NICEIC contractor gives them no more assurance than employing Bob from down the Pub.
Thanks for that NICEIC....you have destroyed the credibility of a great organisation in your pursuit of profit.

And why would a trade organisation need to make a profit anyway? Surely it should be cost neutral

 

[Hiddo]

you mean like this guy did (NIC ENGINEER)...?
all a publicity stunt....they aint interested

and whats this about the chap who did that mountain of shyte `meeting criteria`..?

take a look at the pics man......
does that look like meeting any sort of criteria to you?

Your saying that a register of electricians with a boat load of qualifications hanging out their back pocket would stop this happening, it won't.

He probably has all them. Too many people on here when they see this type of work are quick to jump in and say its the polish lot or the Electrical Trainee brigade when the fact is I see this type of work from time served highly qualified electricians who for whatever reason don't give a ---- anymore.

Don't blame a building regulation and the introduction of schemes for this, nor should you seek it's abolishment to make things right.

This has been going on for years and its only now via the Internet and camera phone technology that people are able to share it with the big bad world.

I didn't say it wasn't bad and I didn't say that the NICEIC are interested. I was making the point that your idea that a register where only the ones with the most quals gets in wont solve it.

 

[ExLeccy]

I should have remembered that. Something about a 'competent person' doing the work. Four years ago I did add new installation in a new loft room for my daughter (new small consumer unit etc.) and established that the Building Control would inspect and issue the Building Regs cert. All this inclusive of the fee for the whole works. At the time they had to be prompted to accept this as there was a lot of confusion in this area. It is their decision whether to pay an Electrical inspector or not. Trying to arrange connection by the Elec supplier was fun as they did not seem very customer oriented. One person would come and disconnect whole supply, your electrician then makes the connection, and then some time later that day they re-connect the supply. I had added Henley blocks.
Last year my next door neighbour was asked by building control for an extra £180 to inspect the one extra light he was fitting in an additional toilet room. Later re-funded by building control as they did not seem to understand what the 'rules' were.
So are we saying that there are still 'cowboys' out there (not NICIEC). Does employing an NICIEC electrician protect the consumer?

 

[Andy78]

I should have remembered that. Something about a 'competent person' doing the work. Four years ago I did add new installation in a new loft room for my daughter (new small consumer unit etc.) and established that the Building Control would inspect and issue the Building Regs cert. All this inclusive of the fee for the whole works. At the time they had to be prompted to accept this as there was a lot of confusion in this area. It is their decision whether to pay an Electrical inspector or not. Trying to arrange connection by the Elec supplier was fun as they did not seem very customer oriented. One person would come and disconnect whole supply, your electrician then makes the connection, and then some time later that day they re-connect the supply. I had added Henley blocks.
Last year my next door neighbour was asked by building control for an extra £180 to inspect the one extra light he was fitting in an additional toilet room. Later re-funded by building control as they did not seem to understand what the 'rules' were.
So are we saying that there are still 'cowboys' out there (not NICIEC). Does employing an NICIEC electrician protect the consumer?

It is supposed to. As you can see by the content of this thread though, it is no guarantee, NICEIC or any other scheme.
As you can also see, their response to shoddy work is aloof at best, total apathy at worst.
They let any tom dick and harry in, but won't admit their system is not working.

 

[Octopus]

Bottom line, scams, or no scams, there is nothing to stop shoddy work.

If the scams were seen to inspect, intervene and uphold best practice etc, etc, then the slide downhill may stop.

 

[telectrix]

apologies for hi-jacking the thread but why is it that the far simpler gas safe register works so much better and at a fraction of the annual fee? and just to digrees, i found this "Plumbers Guide To The Building Regulations" under some floorboards last week.

 

[ian.settle1]

A few TV programs describing the contractor comes to mind Bonanza, Rawhide, Lone ranger to name a few, they want reporting to trading Standards, NICEIC and as already said Dominic Littlewood on Cowboy Builders.

 

[Guitarist]

I am confident that, having seen these photos, the NICEIC will fully investigate this matter and ultimately remove this so-called electrician from their membership. There is no way that any professional organisation would allow work of this dangerous standard to be associated with their name.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I am confident that, having seen these photos, the NICEIC will fully investigate this matter and ultimately remove this so-called electrician from their membership. There is no way that any professional organisation would allow work of this dangerous standard to be associated with their name.

Do I detect a slight air of sarcasm here ..... or are you really that optimistic??

 

[Octopus]

The NICEIC should inspect such work when reported and NOT have to wait for the consumer to complain - most haven't got a clue

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Your saying that a register of electricians with a boat load of qualifications hanging out their back pocket would stop this happening, it won't.

He probably has all them. Too many people on here when they see this type of work are quick to jump in and say its the polish lot or the Electrical Trainee brigade when the fact is I see this type of work from time served highly qualified electricians who for whatever reason don't give a ---- anymore.

Don't blame a building regulation and the introduction of schemes for this, nor should you seek it's abolishment to make things right.

This has been going on for years and its only now via the Internet and camera phone technology that people are able to share it with the big bad world.

I didn't say it wasn't bad and I didn't say that the NICEIC are interested. I was making the point that your idea that a register where only the ones with the most quals gets in wont solve it.

strange....i cant recall saying anything about who had the most quals...
now, minimum entry requirements....thats another matter..
but i suppose you just think that sitting an online guess (open book) 2382....and a £460 wad cuts it......
well, it dont to me....i can tell you that now....its an outrage....

 

[Engineer54]

Your saying that a register of electricians with a boat load of qualifications hanging out their back pocket would stop this happening, it won't.

He probably has all them. Too many people on here when they see this type of work are quick to jump in and say its the polish lot or the Electrical Trainee brigade when the fact is I see this type of work from time served highly qualified electricians who for whatever reason don't give a ---- anymore.

Don't blame a building regulation and the introduction of schemes for this, nor should you seek it's abolishment to make things right.

This has been going on for years and its only now via the Internet and camera phone technology that people are able to share it with the big bad world.

I didn't say it wasn't bad and I didn't say that the NICEIC are interested. I was making the point that your idea that a register where only the ones with the most quals gets in wont solve it.

It WILL if it has the teeth to deal with such offenders. Just like they do in other countries, that have a National Registration system. You start with a foundation for entry purposes, electrical qualifications fulfill that basic foundation, without them you're lost and on a hiding to nothing before you even start!!

Yes you're right, there have always been qualified rogue electricians, ...in a way they are worse than the electrical trainee's, because they will KNOW they are doing crap work!! These characters will also be hit hard by any deregistering from a National Register, because the rule will be, that you will not be allowed to perform any paid electrical work, nor operate as a self employed sole trader, or be employed as an electrician without that registration being in place!!

 

[Guitarist]

Well, looking at the other thread regarding being a fully-qualified domestic installer in just 15 days, you can see a pattern in the industry. Disgraceful imo.

 

[Octopus]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the NICEIC mans office when he reads this thread.

He probably thinks we are a few old wingers - but the truth is that most of these desk "jockeys" haven't been to the coal face in such a long time they have no reality to whats going on.

So schemes, rather than spending you time going on about fusing fans down to 3A, spend MORE of your time visiting sites and following up on the reports you get.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Bottom line, scams, or no scams, there is nothing to stop shoddy work.

If the scams were seen to inspect, intervene and uphold best practice etc, etc, then the slide downhill may stop.

i will agree with that Murdoch.....so, why have the scams?....
if emptyheads are going to just sling it in anyway..rough as you like with a host of non-conformances to go with it.....
and the scams arn`t interested....then why have the scams?....not needed as i see it...
now, a national register of electricians....
and i`m not on about that electricsafe thing either.....another kneejerk reaction..

 

[Octopus]

i`m not on about that electricsafe thing either.....another kneejerk reaction..

Is the knee essential?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It WILL if it has the teeth to deal with such offenders. Just like they do in other countries, that have a National Registration system. You start with a foundation for entry purposes, electrical qualifications fulfill that basic foundation, without them you're lost and on a hiding to nothing before you even start!!

Yes you're right, there have always been qualified rogue electricians, ...in a way they are worse than the electrical trainee's, because they will KNOW they are doing crap work!! These characters will also be hit hard by any deregistering from a National Register, because the rule will be, that you will not be allowed to perform any paid electrical work, nor operate as a self employed sole trader, or be employed as an electrician without that registration being in place!!

eng its clear.....
he admires it all underneath....

 

[jonnyboy1]

After reading this thread the other night without seeing the pictures. If I was the op I would get rouge traders involved the client has been ripped off big time.

 

[Marvo]

Too many people on here when they see this type of work are quick to jump in and say its the polish lot or the Electrical Trainee brigade when the fact is I see this type of work from time served highly qualified electricians who for whatever reason don't give a ---- anymore.

I think you have a very valid point. Anything, not just electrics, installed to those appalling kind of standards have very little to do with how long the guy trained or what technical qualification he has. Work such as that only says to me that the person who installed it has a fundamental character problem. He has no pride in his work and no pride in himself as a person. As you so rightly said above he simply just 'doesn't give a ----' about the work or the fact the he left an unsuspecting paying customer who trusted him with a dangerous house or even that his action are a reflection on him as a person. No amount of training is going to change that. No amount of policing the industry is going to change him. You can't blame the industry, you can't blame the schemes and you can't blame the government for what that guy is, bottom line is he's a rubbish who's better off on the dole where others don't have to suffer because of his lack of character.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Isn't the whole point of the introduction of Part P, and all the rest of this rubbish, to reduced and ideally eliminate this kind of rubbish?


(Doesn't seem to be working!)

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I have been invited to a meeting with the NICEIC next week - they must of missed me!

Basically, I have reported numerous contractors to them with regards to the incompetence of their work.

The NICEIC only currently name and shame those parading around claiming to be registered, but are not.

So I have created a 'checkatrade' style website filled with companies doing work like in this thread yet they are all exclusively registered as domestic installers.

I sent it to the NICEIC before I host it to see if they would offer it their endorsement.


I am actually in the middle of coding a more serious website designed for homeowners offering electrical safety advise, very similar to the ESC.
But mine will not be recommending the competent person schemes and be arguing the benefits of the good old fashioned referral and reference method.
These registers of competent people are worthless!

 

[trev]

@NICEIC Engineer Would you take a look at a thread titled 18 days to become qualified and give us your opinion please. YOUR opinion, not the party line please

 

[Octopus]

@NICEIC Engineer Would you take a look at a thread titled 18 days to become qualified and give us your opinion please. YOUR opinion, not the party line please

Don't hold your breath!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I think you have a very valid point. Anything, not just electrics, installed to those appalling kind of standards have very little to do with how long the guy trained or what technical qualification he has. Work such as that only says to me that the person who installed it has a fundamental character problem. He has no pride in his work and no pride in himself as a person. As you so rightly said above he simply just 'doesn't give a ----' about the work or the fact the he left an unsuspecting paying customer who trusted him with a dangerous house or even that his action are a reflection on him as a person. No amount of training is going to change that. No amount of policing the industry is going to change him. You can't blame the industry, you can't blame the schemes and you can't blame the government for what that guy is, bottom line is he's a rubbish who's better off on the dole where others don't have to suffer because of his lack of character.

The point for me though is not that the guy exists,we all know he does...it's the fact that the NICEIC see fit to approve him,which when I started out they would never have done.

 

[trev]

Don't hold your breath!

I know mate, I liken it to an old style communist state where no one dares to contradict the official party line. When a training centre set up their stall on youtube I asked them if they would be prepared to have any of their trainees working in their homes. You should have seen the response, Stalin would have been proud.

 

[Silly Sausage]

@NICEIC Engineer Would you take a look at a thread titled 18 days to become qualified and give us your opinion please. YOUR opinion, not the party line please

You need to wear that wet T-shirt on your head trev!

 

[Dubbo]

The guy who carried this lot out trades a few miles from myself and is NICEIC domestic installer and approved contractor,(i checked the register cos i couldnt beleive it!!) left no paper work etc..i only hope he reads this forum,he might go back and finish it off .....

If it is true which at this moment I don't believe!!, that it was carried out by any scheme member NICEIC or other. Name and shame or you are letting him off with it, a trained monkey wouldn't turn that rubbish out, they are pretending to be members of schemes to rip people off, where is the paperwork to confirm that it was carried out by a NICEIC member, then I will go on a witch hunt with everyone else for the NICEIC

 

[ayjay]

the op won,t name and shame i wonder why?

 

[Marvo]

The point for me though is not that the guy exists,we all know he does...it's the fact that the NICEIC see fit to approve him,which when I started out they would never have done.

I guess they're in the same position as the motor vehicle licensing department. If a guy proves he can drive to the required standard they have to give him a license. He might drink and drive every day since he passed his test but his license can't be taken away until there's a sucessful prosecution against him and that prosecution isn't brought about by the licensing dept, it's the job of the police to get the conviction.

 

[trev]

the op won,t name and shame i wonder why?

Possibly because there are laws which he could be seen to transgress by doing so. Possibly because this other guy has a reputation as a hard lad who will work him over if he thinks he's bad mouthed him publicly. Possibly because he's not 100% that the guy in question is actually responsible or whether it's someone masquerading as him.

Many possible reasons Ayjay, let's just sit this out till we have something concrete to go on eh?

 

[Dubbo]

I guess they're in the same position as the motor vehicle licensing department. If a guy proves he can drive to the required standard they have to give him a license. He might drink and drive every day since he passed his test but his license can't be taken away until there's a sucessful prosecution against him and that prosecution isn't brought about by the licensing dept, it's the job of the police to get the conviction.

Does he have a licence in the first place, might be a photocopy? Best check he is allowed to drive first

 

[Dubbo]

Possibly because there are laws which he could be seen to transgress by doing so. Possibly because this other guy has a reputation as a hard lad who will work him over if he thinks he's bad mouthed him publicly. Possibly because he's not 100% that the guy in question is actually responsible or whether it's someone masquerading as him.

Many possible reasons Ayjay, let's just sit this out till we have something concrete to go on eh?

if it was a hard lad from we're I come from, I wouldn't put pictures of his bad job on the web I would keep my nose out

 

[trev]

Luckily, where I live the hard lads actually care about their work and would take a very dim view of this sort of thing

 

[Geordie Spark]

@NICEIC Engineer Would you take a look at a thread titled 18 days to become qualified and give us your opinion please. YOUR opinion, not the party line please

There's no chucking fance of that !!!

(but you knew that already )

 

[trev]

There's no chucking fance of that !!!

(but you knew that already )

Yee knaa wot thi say aboot shy bairns bonny lad