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I think you need to lose your arrogance and respond to posts in a respectful manner or this thread will be stopped.How come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?
Discuss 3 phase domestic supply in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
I think you need to lose your arrogance and respond to posts in a respectful manner or this thread will be stopped.How come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?
Even at the height of the fuel strikes it never took me that long to fill up. This sounds like an over exaggeration in order to try and make a pointI tend to have a long wait to get to a pump, then a long wait to pay. I would say half an hour.
Some EV's will soon recharge in 15 mins would you like to put a number on how many will recharge in 15mins and what infrastructure is needed for this to happen. EV's with larger battery capacities charged at home would need chargers of 7Kw or greater running for 10 hours or more to achieve a full charge overnight the household with 2 or more EV's will really struggleSome EVs will soon recharge the lot in 15 mins. But as it will not be fully flat more like 5 to 10 mins. If charged at home, it fills the tank overnight while in bed.
I have followed the progress of zero emissions cars for many years. I do analysis, being a graduate engineer. That is how we assess matters. I have addressed all points put forward. Most points given are people just no knowing, with others reciting oil company propaganda and myths.
You have quoted many pieces from the links you posted with most of what you have posted found to be utter tosh and lacking real world knowledge of the local DNO network and it's limitationMost were answered in the links I gave. The links many never looked at but then typed complete nonsense thinking they knew all the answers. Many asked question which can be answered by a quick Google. Many dismissed the links rejecting the content, unable to accept that what they have been thinking for years is wrong.
You have driven this debate from the outset and peppered it with biased links and dubious informationI have no interests in EVs, batteries, etc.
This thread started off regarding supplies, home batteries, etc, I never pushed it over to an EV thread, in fact attempting to get it on track. The battery technology is being pushed by EVs. The more they improve, the better for homes.
HMG is looking at banning the sale of new fossil fuel burning cars in ten years, bringing it forward 5 years. I never made it up, I gave the link.
Asda have 432 charging points and 631 stores thats less than one per store yet in your analytical mind it adds up to a lotASDA have a lot of chargers. The aim is to have a charger at every parking bay. Shop and get 10 miles free at the same time.
So the panels are dropping in price they are only a part of an installation what about the inverters, cabling and mounting hardware plus the labour to install it allThere is a solar farm on the English-Welsh border at Deeside. The world's first solar school is just outside Liverpool - 1961. Solar PV panels are dropping in price like stones - see the Seba vid. It will be as cheap to have solar tiles as ordinary tiles. All roofs are solar roofs as the sun shines on them all. The economics clearly stack up looking at all the panels on top of commercial buildings.
Look at the link to the National Grid man. That solves your misgivings.
Zero emissions at point of use is a red herring it uses tyres, windscreen wipers and other consumable items during the course of use, repurposing old EV batteries only delays the batteries ultimate disposal and deflects the associated emissions from the EV it started it's life inzero emission at the point of use is not a red herring at all. It is coming. About three years ago the transport minister abandoned the large scale electrification project, because zero emission battery and hydrogen fuel cell trains can fill the bill
I gave the Tesla one million charges battery to be announced within days.
So if it wasn't you who was it thenI did not labour the point of EVs on this thread.
Earlier in this thread you quoted EV points outnumbering PETROL STATIONS which is a very different statistic to the number of PETROL PUMPSDid you do a Google? I gave links to EV chargers outnumbering petrol pumps. That is not counting home charging either, which are being installed every day, with also public chargers being fitted every day.
It is far from a simple subject in fact it is quite complex once you dig into it and start crunching the numbersHow come you find it so difficult to understand something so simple?
I posted the details with links, yet a raft of posts come back asking the same question, as if what I wrote was false, making it up or exaggerating. This was not the fist time I directed people back to the links.I think you need to lose your arrogance and respond to posts in a respectful manner or this thread will be stopped.
It's an option on all BMW's and included if you have the business option fitted, most 5 series are bought as a company car and have this option fitted, so not rare at all IMO, and hereby lies the problem, all of your post are only your opinion most not backed up with facts, just manufacturers propaganda, this Thread has strayed so far away from it's original intent it is now far too confrontational, time to close it I think.I forgot the caveat (some people are so picky !)... obviously some ICE vehicles can do this already, but they are rare or you have to install them as a non-standard upgrade.
The Tesco filling station after I shop.Even at the height of the fuel strikes it never took me that long to fill up. This sounds like an over exaggeration in order to try and make a point
Or maybe it is not going your way, so you want to stop the game and take your ball home.time to close it I think.
You're right Mike... I completely forgot about the BMW 5 Series (with Business Option)... I should have looked at the facts. I feel such a fool. Last year they sold about 10k of them (out of 2.31 Million, being about 0.4% of all new UK car sales). So as you say, not rare at all.It's an option on all BMW's and included if you have the business option fitted, most 5 series are bought as a company car and have this option fitted, so not rare at all IMO, and hereby lies the problem, all of your post are only your opinion most not backed up with facts, just manufacturers propaganda
I recall the diesel BMWs (or was it Merc) had a narrowboat central heating boiler fitted as an option in the engine bay that runs on diesel. It preheated the engine and cab of course.You're right Mike... I completely forgot about the BMW 5 Series (with Business Option)... I should have looked at the facts. I feel such a fool. Last year they sold about 10k of them (out of 2.31 Million, being about 0.4% of all new UK car sales). So as you say, not rare at all.
During warm up an engine will be doing single figures in mpg equiv - the engine is 20% efficient anyhow, so down to around 10% on warm up.
Good point. But not in the current techno climate. Diesels will be outlawed in urban areas sooner than you think. London has emissions regs. Diesel hybrids were not accepted, petrol hybrids were.Electric vehicles predate petrol and diesel therefore EV is also old hat.
Same here.I'm not sure why someone who fully understands combustion engines would present such wildly inaccurate information.
Meanwhile next door in Kensington Chelsea..
There is planned an improvement in the Source London network of on-street charging points to expand from 15 points to over 40 – and half of those new points will offer much faster charging at a rate of 22kWh (compared to the standard 7kWh rate). We think that this will greatly improve our offer to residents and address the specific point raised by Mrs Canard Moreau at the Council meeting.
Additionally, there are around 60 electric vehicle charging sockets in our lamp columns, and we plan to increase this number significantly by this spring. This will greatly increase the density of our electric vehicle charging network, and provide residents with more choice.
Finally, officers are identifying sites that might be suitable for a number of rapid (50kWh) chargers, which allow vehicles to recharge in a short period of time – again offering electric vehicle owners an additional option.
Our aim is to achieve substantial coverage of charging points within 200m across the borough.
The most they have ever got from diesel engines were in large ship's engines running at constant temperature, speed and load - a mere ~50%. That is half the fuel in the tanks is wasted.diesel engine efficiency is generally at least twice that which you have claimed.
Name these people.People who work in the industry have repeatedly stated that existing infrastructure is insufficient to meet singnificant increases in demand. I'm not sure how copying and pasting the minutes of a London council meeting addresses that.
The most they have ever got from diesel engines were in large ships's engines running a constant temperature, speed and load - a mere ~50%. That is half the fuel in the tanks is wasted.
Road vehicles is around 30% at best. Hydrogen fuel cells are running at 60% in trains in Germany right now.
Name these people.
Once again. Look at the links I gave. Look at the Fully Charged vid with the National Grid man. Listen to what he says. On other vids the top man has said there is no problem in the transition.
You are spouting oil lobby propaganda. The same old stuck record for the past 10 years.
So these experts who say the the grid cannot cope are all the Sparks posting here, with nothing backing up what they wrote, while the National Grid expert (I gave the link) says the opposite. Are you serious when you write these sorts of things? LOL Are you having a laugh?At this point I'm done. The people I refer are those who have posted in this thread. While I do not currently work in the electrical industry, most of those posting are not only presenting cold hard facts, but cold hard facts based upon many years of experience.
Hydrogen is suitable for large transportation: ships, trains, trucks, buses, etc. Once trains take it up, the road vehicles will follow. Hydrogen can be produced by electricity overnight at train depots, so no transportation costs.
The current hybrid trains running on electric wires and diesel off the wires to Devon/Cornwall, from London, are designed to be converted to Hydrogen when the time comes.
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So these experts who say the the grid cannot cope are all the Sparks posting here, while the National Grid expert (I gave the link) says the opposite. Are you serious when you write these sorts of things? LOL Are you having a laugh?
I am not campaigning. I know the technology. I know where it is heading. Again, look at the Tony Seba vid, that will tell you which way we are heading. He does not even cover flat screen TVs and how quick they spread all over the world.
With living amongst the sheep you obviously think it is not a big issue. Like 90% of us, I live in an urban area, and I do not like having vehicles pour out poisons 24/7 amongst us.
Wise up. The Sparks on here are the ultimate authority. LOL, LOL.
That one man is a top man at National Grid. They are moving over to more wind and maybe wave and tidal as time moves on. They say they can cope. The secret is grid balancing - in short electricity/energy storage. There are banks of grid storage electric batteries in large sheds around the country. The advances in batteries mean they do not need to store the energy in stored water. Listen to him again, he is very clear.I still don't understand how the system is going to cope with:
Public EV chargers
Private EV chargers
The switch from gas heating and cooking to electric
The electricity needed for hydrogen production
The electricity needed for an increasing number of electric trains.
Maybe the grid can cope with all this, all though I've only seen one man's confirmation that it can.
That one man is a top man at National Grid. They are moving over to more wind and maybe wave and tidal as time moves on. They say they can cope. The secret is grid balancing - in short electricity/energy storage. There are banks of grid storage electric batteries in large sheds around the country. The advances in batteries mean they do not need to store the energy in stored water. Listen to him again, he is very clear.
The distribution network is constantly being upgraded. The roads near me are constantly being dug up for new cables, replacing old. They put bigger current carrying cables in.
I am having a good laugh here.
What percentage of feeder cables to lamp posts in the UK have capacity for multiple charge points? No waffle, no going off at a tangent, no YouTube videos.
Imagine requesting to have a petrol pump outside you home. In Westminster alone there is infinitely more charging points than petrol pumps. What percentage of lamp posts have petrol pumps on them?In Westminster we have over 450 on-street electric vehicle (EV) charge points, ranging from 3kw to 22kw, with more being added to provide greater coverage for the growing number of EV owners in the City.
That is just Westminster alone. You can request to have a charger outside your home.
.Electric vehicles
There are many benefits to owning an electric vehicle including free on-street parking in Westminster (when charging) and no congestion charge.www.westminster.gov.uk
Imagine requesting to have a petrol pump outside you home. In Westminster alone there is infinitely more charging points than petrol pumps.
They might get this in the end.
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View attachment 60551
One of the four chargers outside my place. See, I never made it up.
Oh no. Everything I have written is lies or exaggerated. Read back on the thread. It must be. Hilarious.Nobody is saying you made it up. You have a strange attitude.
Oh no. Everything I have written is lies or exaggerated. Read back on the thread. It must be. Hilarious.
The answer were already given with supporting links. What questions came were loaded and narrow focused, not understanding the big picture. Usually by someone who thinking he is clever. Sorry Mate, too wise to be dragged into that corner.You will find it is mostly because you avoided answering many questions, choosing often to answer what you thought, or perhaps wanted, people had asked. People are in the main not accusing you of lying.
And don't forget, there are lot of very experienced electricians on here, who are very conversant with the electrical infrastructure situation.
Back on topic. The Powerwall battery, from a real user.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6jyy0Joq8&t=1s
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The answer were already given with supporting links. What questions came were loaded and narrow focused, not understanding the big picture. Usually by someone who thinking he is clever. Sorry Mate, too wise to be dragged into that corner.
Well these electrician who think there is a problem had better take it up the National Grid man
View: https://youtu.be/ONp8dismI-Q?t=837
National Grid man Kelloway explains matters very simply. Kelloway does stress the importance of balancing the grid using energy and electricity storage using water, large electric battery banks and hydrogen. This eliminates peaker power stations. Other ideas are around to balance.
I never made it up. Look at and listen to him. Learn for once.
The local infrastructure is being constantly being uprated. May not be at the end of your street, but it is. I did address that point.Again, you answer the question you want to and not the ones I ask. So, at the risk of repeating myself too much: It is the local infrastructure managed by the DNOs that is being called into doubt. You also never answered my question about lamp post chargers.
By the way, I'm sure most of us don't need telling that balancing the grid is important. This is not a new thing.
I expect your reply will either be something childish, a youtube video, or a reference to 'the national grid man'.
You really don't want to see a balanced argument do you. I still think you have some commercial involvement somewhere. If it was just an interest of yours you would be keen to discuss advantages/disadvantages etc, but instead you just ignore things you don't like.
Update: I see you've disagreed with my question about the capability of lamp post feeders to supply charging points. How on earth can you 'disagree' with that?
The local infrastructure is being constantly being uprated. May not be at the end of your street, but it is. I did address that point.
The silly question about lamp post chargers was well...silly. I see no petrol pumps at lamp posts, never mind two of them.
I see you have selective amnesia when it comes to:
Try to keep with events.
- Tesla's new battery, introduced within days;
- Toyota's new battery - on the market in 5 years;
- The multitude if chargers in Westminster and Kensington - that is only two;
- That you can request a charger outside your home. Try that with a petrol pump;
- National Grid say - no problem with EVs;
- EV pollute less in production of fuel;
- etc;
Why do you guys keep feeding this troll?
I came back on as I had notification that DPG had replied, what a brilliant function the Ignore is, all the John-SJW post have disappeared off the thread, wonderful, does make the post from you guys look a bit strange where you have quoted him over and over and over and over and over and (add infinitum).
I think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !The problem is that his stance is intransigent, he will not listen to anyone except himself.
I think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !
I agree... one of the problems is that people are directly comparing EVs to ICE vehicles. My diesel van does over 400 miles between refuels... but does that mean I need the same thing with an EV ?? Of course not... but that's often what people are expecting. The days when I do > 100 miles are very very rare, so why do I need 400 miles of range ? But that's often the expectation.For some folk an EV is already a perfect solution for 99% of their use, even if they don't see it.
There is no debate with him it is his way or no wayThe problem is that his stance is intransigent, he will not listen to anyone except himself.
I am just about to "Unwatch" this thread, so guys please don't think I am ignoring you.
I don't think there is intransigence on both sides there is only one person that is arrogantly refusing to give answers to the questions asked of him, he thinks National Grid and the DNO's are one and the same and there will be electricity for all because the National Grid man says so and to keep posting links to videos and facts that are somewhat dubious to support his argument doesn't help his caseI think there's intransigence from both sides of the argument... some people have already decided that EVs are a waste of time and refuse to see any of the advantages. Others, who see the ICE as the work of devil, refuse to see why we even allow them on the roads !
The skepticism surrounding EV's is not helped by the gross exaggeration of the range per charge, if a car manufacturer quoted 40mpg and in the real world it only did 20mpg people would be boycotting that manufacturers vehicles but for some reason the poor range performance of EV's against the quoted range seems to be socially acceptable because it is environmentally friendly.To be fair I think most of us see the benefits of EVs, and are willing to embrace them. But it's no good blindly ignoring possible issues along the way.
I can only agree with the futility of this discussion but this is being driven by one person who will not deviate from his crusade despite the extensive knowledge and experience of the people who have posted in this thread regarding the issues that will affect the wholesale change to an EV and electric futureSeriously guys, its futile discussing this with someone who does not have a basic grasp of physics and electricity. Also someone who believes stuff on the internet / youtube without qualifying any of it is a bad decision maker. He does not even have an EV and he certainly has not had to install charging points, or explain to clients of landlords who are banned from installing charging points because of the lack of power.
I think we all know EVs weaknesses that they are trying to address, like range and charge time but sadly this just pushed the problem onto very high KW chargers. I think there are very few Evs that have an onboard charger larger than 11KW. This limits how fast they can be charged, generally its over 9 hours.
If the market goes to DC supercharging direct to the battery pack, then mere mortals will not be able to afford these chargers as they are eye wateringly expensive and the space alone rules most locations out.
These lamp post chargers and supermarket ones are just toys.
My view is leave it another 5 years, all the first adopters who are willing to put up with all these obvious weaknesses will have developed the market so that ordinary cars become viable.
This post hits the nail on the head, in the next few years we will have to look more closely at moving over to EV's but to achieve this there are a number of hurdles that need to be addressed to overcome the resistance to them these will hopefully have been solved by that time and the EV will be no different to the ICE vehicleFor some folk an EV is already a perfect solution for 99% of their use, even if they don't see it. And for the very occasional long-range trip it would be cheaper just to hire something else.
But unless you have a home with a drive for your charger (or very accommodating work car park) and a use-case pattern that limits the mileage requirements between charges it is still a bit out of the range of sensible decisions.
But the similar argument could be put that most times a Fiesta van would be perfectly adequate for daily use but then occasionally it might be a Transit connect or a larger Transit is needed for a week or two through the year. The current solution is buy the Transit it will cover every need the alternative is the inconveience of occasionally having to hire a larger vehicleI agree... one of the problems is that people are directly comparing EVs to ICE vehicles. My diesel van does over 400 miles between refuels... but does that mean I need the same thing with an EV ?? Of course not... but that's often what people are expecting. The days when I do > 100 miles are very very rare, so why do I need 400 miles of range ? But that's often the expectation.
I was speaking generally... the pro EV group vs. the pro ICE group... never specifically about one person... if the debate is at the micro level, we don't get anywhere... it's the macro picture that's important.I don't think there is intransigence on both sides there is only one person that is arrogantly refusing to give answers to the questions asked of him...
It's not really that similar. The solution to my one day a year dilemma when I want to travel further than the range allows is to stop for 30 mins to re-charge. And that's probably a stop I'd make anyway. The point I was making is that the range issue has been largely solved... notice that I say 'largely' not 'totally'... you'll always find an example of someone that still has an issue with it.But the similar argument could be put that most times a Fiesta van would be perfectly adequate for daily use but then occasionally it might be a Transit connect or a larger Transit is needed for a week or two through the year. The current solution is buy the Transit it will cover every need the alternative is the inconveience of occasionally having to hire a larger vehicle
Apologies I looked at your comment in the wrong contextI was speaking generally... the pro EV group vs. the pro ICE group... never specifically about one person... if the debate is at the micro level, we don't get anywhere... it's the macro picture that's important.
I beg to differ regarding the similarities there are many similar examples I have friends and relatives who tow caravans and boats, for most of the time they don't need the vehicle they use daily but they need a vehicle that is capable of towing a number of times a year so they tailor their choice of vehicle to a vehicle capable of towing their trailer. It is the same with vans do we use a small vehicle and only carry the tools and materials for a particular job or do we have a larger vehicle and carry a lot of tools and materials that we may need but are rarely used.It's not really that similar. The solution to my one day a year dilemma when I want to travel further than the range allows is to stop for 30 mins to re-charge. And that's probably a stop I'd make anyway. The point I was making is that the range issue has been largely solved... notice that I say 'largely' not 'totally'... you'll always find an example of someone that still has an issue with it.
I'm currently evaluating whether an Electric Van would work for me... there are pros and cons, as there are with everything in life. But for me, range is not an issue.
You just need to adopt the French attitude for meal times - relax and enjoy for at least 2 hours!food and comfort breaks including 4 refuels, I'm not sure I would want to do that in a current EV that needs an hour or 2 to recharge every ???? miles.
The problem with that is a bottle of wine at every meal stop doesn't mix with the drivingYou just need to adopt the French attitude for meal times - relax and enjoy for at least 2 hours!
Ah, so we need 5 hour food stops!The problem with that is a bottle of wine at every meal stop doesn't mix with the driving
A plumber uses a Tesla as a van.I'm currently evaluating whether an Electric Van would work for me... there are pros and cons, as there are with everything in life. But for me, range is not an issue.
That is no where near using a Tesla as a van , he only had one small box of tools and a boiler where was the rest of his kit
With a 5 hour session that's heading into hangover territoryAh, so we need 5 hour food stops!
Good for the national grid, good for the vintners!
What a pointless video.
That car couldn't carry a tenth of what I usually carry.
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