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Discuss 9kW 3ph Immersion Type Heater run in Single Phase in the Electrical Talk - All Other Countries area at ElectriciansForums.net

Hi, I received a 9kW 3ph heater from a friend from india, i was hoping to use this in steam production for a distillation project i am working at. I rewired it and made the 3 heating element in parallel connection. Now my problem is the 6 gauge wires i am using are always heating up, also some outside connection smokes. what do you propose i do.? also, what will the effective current of this heater be in single phase?
 
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telectrix

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Hi, I received a 9kW 3ph heater from a friend from india, i was hoping to use this in steam production for a distillation project i am working at. I rewired it and made the 3 heating element in parallel connection. Now my problem is the 6 gauge wires i am using are always heating up, also some outside connection smokes. what do you propose i do.? also, what will the effective current of this heater be in single phase?
what's you supply voltage?
 
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telectrix

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was the heater originally designed for 415V 3 phase or 230V 3 phase.should say on rating plate
 

telectrix

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if it's designed as 230V 3 phase in star configuration, then each element requires 133V, not 230V. that could be the problem.
 

Lucien Nunes

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Or do you have pictures of the connections before you modified them?

If the elements were in delta and are designed for 220V, then each element requires 3000/220=13.6A. Total single phase load will be 3x13.6=41A.
#6 cable is about 13mm² which will easily carry 41A. Either the elements are 133V as Tel suggests (which would be a bit surprising as I would expect them to be normal single-phase heaters) or your connections are not properly made and have excessive resistance.

BTW normal immersion water heaters are not designed to raise steam. The element sheath will run hotter when not all of it is in contact with water, and its life may be shortened.
 

Pete999

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Or do you have pictures of the connections before you modified them?

If the elements were in delta and are designed for 220V, then each element requires 3000/220=13.6A. Total single phase load will be 3x13.6=41A.
#6 cable is about 13mm² which will easily carry 41A. Either the elements are 133V as Tel suggests (which would be a bit surprising as I would expect them to be normal single-phase heaters) or your connections are not properly made and have excessive resistance.

BTW normal immersion water heaters are not designed to raise steam. The element sheath will run hotter when not all of it is in contact with water, and its life may be shortened.
Spot on Lucien
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
hi everyone. thank you very much for giving time. my friend hasnt sent me anything yet. but i think the connection should be on delta because i didnt notice any neutral wires before. it was delivered with a #10 3 wire.
an electrician suggested that it may not be able to supply the same energy to generate steam in single phase compare to when it was in 3 phase. is it true?
will this 9kW 230V 3ph heater cant produce the same heat energy to raise steam if connected to single phase even though all wire gauge requirements and proper wiring connections are in place?
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Or do you have pictures of the connections before you modified them?

If the elements were in delta and are designed for 220V, then each element requires 3000/220=13.6A. Total single phase load will be 3x13.6=41A.
#6 cable is about 13mm² which will easily carry 41A. Either the elements are 133V as Tel suggests (which would be a bit surprising as I would expect them to be normal single-phase heaters) or your connections are not properly made and have excessive resistance.

BTW normal immersion water heaters are not designed to raise steam. The element sheath will run hotter when not all of it is in contact with water, and its life may be shortened.
also, the #6 cable i use is aluminum, which should have 40 amps max only
 

Lucien Nunes

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an electrician suggested that it may not be able to supply the same energy to generate steam in single phase compare to when it was in 3 phase. is it true?
As previously explained, you need to find out the voltage rating of the individual elements, or their resistance in ohms (from which you can calculate the voltage if you know the power rating), or whether the original connection was star or delta. They may have been in star even without a neutral cable, as they would be equal and balanced and the star point would sit at the correct voltage without having to be connected to the supply.

Aluminium cable is notorious for making bad connections. If you are not familiar with the correct technique and use anticorrosive paste etc, then you can easily make a joint that looks good but overheats.
 
B

Bobster

I'm happy to be corrected.Tell me where. Where can you buy 133v appliances.

Parts of Europe used to have 220/127 but I have never come across 230/133.
It's not a 133v appliance.

It was a 230 single phase appliance. With a converter to change to 3 phase 230v.

Individual elements were rated for 130v because of the star configuration.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I have never come across 230/133.
I have a British-made 3-phase generating set rated to produce this voltage for powering radar installations, which took a 230V delta supply although the generator is star wound. I have seen mention in a data book of 135V historically in China and possibly 133V in Northern Italy, when lighting and power services were supplied at different voltages and tariffs. Some voltage selectors on European valve universal radios encompass 133V, with tappings as high as 140 or 150V, although mainly to allow them to be set to the actual voltage rather than the nominal.

I think the point of this thread was that the OP was surprised that the elements seemed to be passing too much current and this was one possible explanation that could be eliminated by checking either the rated voltage of the elements or their original wiring configuration, neither of which has happened yet.
 
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Also how has the N connection been produced, can you post up a diagram of the wiring arrangements?
Hi Pete,My friend sent me this. I still didn’t manage to re run this thing. Please recommend wire sizes and if 3ph to single phase conversion was made, what will be my effective current requirements? Will a 25kva transformer be enough?
Again its a 230V 9kW 3ph immersions heater originally. My friend from india said that it requires around 63A if current when it was at its 3phase form.
 

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Pete999

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Hi Pete,My friend sent me this. I still didn’t manage to re run this thing. Please recommend wire sizes and if 3ph to single phase conversion was made, what will be my effective current requirements? Will a 25kva transformer be enough?
Again its a 230V 9kW 3ph immersions heater originally. My friend from india said that it requires around 63A if current when it was at its 3phase form.
Can't offer "how to" advice From a distance Jon, not knowing your Skill set, best call a local electrician in your location.
 

James

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If you are running all 3 elements on the same phase, be aware the neutral current will be the sum of all the loads.
 

Pete999

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Hi Pete,My friend sent me this. I still didn’t manage to re run this thing. Please recommend wire sizes and if 3ph to single phase conversion was made, what will be my effective current requirements? Will a 25kva transformer be enough?
Again its a 230V 9kW 3ph immersions heater originally. My friend from india said that it requires around 63A if current when it was at its 3phase form.
Jon with all due respects to your Friend in India, The diagram you linked is just a diagram of how a 3 phase Star connected load is connected, and how the N amd E are derived from this system, your post leads me to believe you don't trust your Friends' judgment of the situation, asking for a second opinion on an internet Forum is not good advice in this situation, like I said earlier you need to contact someone local to you, for help and guidance. That is the best advice I can give you.
 
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