Apprenticeships NEVER AGAIN

[TaffyDuck]

Having now trained two apprentices in my time, the most recent finished last year, I have decided that I`ll never do it again.

Shoddy teaching at college means I have to do 90% of the work to get these guys up to speed.

When the powers that be start paying the firms who take apprentices on, train them, mentor them and do the vast majority of the work to get them through their exams as opposed to paying the lions share to fat lazy colleges for doing virtually nothing then I might reconsider.

Until then, my apprenticeship scheme is closed.

 

[i=p/u]

They bound to have made you profit every week tho ... I'd say to come competent spark, your talking more than 4 years maybe 8 and have been working in trade for full 8 years......

- - - Updated - - -

Ok 5 years anyway

 

[TaffyDuck]

Simply not worth the bother. As I am doing the work that the colleges should be doing I am far better off taking on a teenager without an apprenticeship. Takes a year before they make you any profit so why should I bother with vast quantities of paperwork and half witted assessors coming round. Waste of time. They need to understand that its the pit face where these kids learn.

 

[CTID]

My first apprenticeship, unfortunately not electrical, was the way to it. I went to training 2000 in Blackburn instead of college. I wanted electrical but alas no vacancies so I was on to CNC. You completed the first year at the training centre, with one of those days each week being at the on site college. You did your year there learning the basics and also an appreciation of some other trades such as design, electrical, fitting etc. Only then after this year did you go to company 4 days a week with one day each week back at the training centre college doing HNC's etc. I don't agree with a lot of colleges just throwing the apprentices onto companies that first year when some of them don't even know which end of a hammer to use :confused5:

 

[TaffyDuck]

CITD it doesn`t make much of a difference. 1st year is Health & Safety nowadays. No tradesmen I work with here will touch an apprentice now. No point. We do the work, the college does bugger all and gets all the funding. Whats the point, I`m earning a college tutors salary for him.

 

[CTID]

Mine was 11 years ago and we were taught about the job at least so when I went to company I could start making them money. It has all changed now. I can't get an apprenticeship through college round here now. I have found a company to take me full time and support me through training due to my previous electrical experience, however college won't touch me as I'm on a self employed basis! So they won't take me on the 2357 but they also don't offer the 2365, the new 2330. Really bugs me especially as college said we'll I can always go pay for an intense course!

 

[Adam W]

What hope is there for the future of the industry when employers won't take on 5WWs, won't take on adult trainees, and now it seems won't take on apprentices?
This attitude seems to typify the modern 'everything for nothing' mentality - if you're not going to be making mega bucks out of it you won't bother trying to teach anyone anything, just try to poach already skilled electricians from other companies until you retire, when a foreign company can take over all your work for cheaper.

... But why should they wait until you retire? Why not pre-empt a future "skills crisis" and move in now, taking everyone's jobs?

 

[TaffyDuck]

What hope is there for the future of the industry when employers won't take on 5WWs, won't take on adult trainees, and now it seems won't take on apprentices?
This attitude seems to typify the modern 'everything for nothing' mentality - if you're not going to be making mega bucks out of it you won't bother trying to teach anyone anything, just try to poach already skilled electricians from other companies until you retire, when a foreign company can take over all your work for cheaper.

... But why should they wait until you retire? Why not pre-empt a future "skills crisis" and move in now, taking everyone's jobs?

I`ve done my bit and have had enough. The system is at fault. I will from now on train people myself, I wont let an apprenticeship assessor on site so they will have to just do some qualifications themselves. Apprenticeships are being killed by the very people who say they are trying to promote them, the colleges. There is no hope if small tradesmen, the backbone of the apprenticeship model in the construction sector are packing it in.

I started this thread as I was on site today with 4 other trades, and at bait time we were talking about this. All these guys said, never again. Sparks (me), plasterer, bricky and a plumber.

And they had all trained apprentices in the last few years

Sad but true

 

[Knobhead]

I can't say as I blame you Taffy. A company based apprenticeship was the very best you could get. The employers had an interest in ensuring you succeeded.

OK it’s years since I did mine, the companies would create merry hell with the collages and examining boards if they didn’t come up to scratch.

 

[Adam W]

If everybody takes that attitude how is anyone supposed to learn a trade? Would you rather that newcomers to trades walk out of training centres after a couple of years and be expected to hit the ground running with no real-world experience?
One of the main attractions of doing an apprenticeship is you 'earn while you learn', but if employers aren't paying the apprentice to put what they've learned into practice then either the taxpayer will have to foot the bill (around £15k pa for 4 years for someone who might decide at the end it's not for them) or the duration of an apprenticeship will need to be drastically reduced to minimise the time without pay. Maybe somewhere in the region of, say, 5 weeks?

 

[TaffyDuck]

Lots of people are taking that attitude whether you like it or not. The question is why should I bother, college training and NVQ`s are a nightmare of paperwork and hassle. How many apprentices have you employed?

And if you read my posts I never said I wouldn`t train people just not through the flawed apprenticeship schemes which are there to line the pockets of lazy colleges who rely on people like me to do their jobs for them I`m not advocating more college I`m advocating less.

 

[Adam W]

I haven't employed any apprentices yet but I have tried to get an apprenticeship and tried to get work as an adult trainee.
Why bother doing anything? Why not just sit at home and let the government do everything for you?

 

[TaffyDuck]

And if it is 15k a year per student its a rip off. No way is that value for money.

 

[TaffyDuck]

I haven't employed any apprentices yet but I have tried to get an apprenticeship and tried to get work as an adult trainee.
Why bother doing anything? Why not just sit at home and let the government do everything for you?

And the reason you cant get an apprenticeship is the system that puts huge loads on the main training provider, i,e the contractor and gives all the financial benefit to the college. It is you who is paying the cost of this folly.

 

[Robotstar5]

The company I work for took on 3 apprentices (for the toolroom) last year, 2 are OK but the other has no interest, turns up late, stands around with hands in pockets etc. why did he bother applying for the job?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Sounds like you have had a bad experience. Dont tar us all with the same brush. If my apprentices dont work their balls off at college or at work, and if the college dont deliver, then i am very quick to get on their cases.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

The company I work for took on 3 apprentices (for the toolroom) last year, 2 are OK but the other has no interest, turns up late, stands around with hands in pockets etc. why did he bother applying for the job?

Fair point, he has taken the opportunity away from someone who would have wanted it, so why hasnt he been sacked? The company is as much to blame as he is for putting up with him.

 

[axel132132]

Send them to Huddersfield, my apprenticeship was good.. I learnt 90% of theory of my college.. and then learnt stuff i needed on site from my company.. then i got qualified.. asked for a pay rise and sacked haha!

Its cheap labor at the end of the day! Tis good if i ever struggled on my own ill take on an apprentice no sweat! I was paid £2 / hour! thats £16 a day.... £80 a week.... £320 a month.... £3840 a year for a laborer haha

 

[telectrix]

Send them to Huddersfield, my apprenticeship was good.. I learnt 90% of theory of my college.. and then learnt stuff i needed on site from my company.. then i got qualified.. asked for a pay rise and sacked haha!

Its cheap labor at the end of the day! Tis good if i ever struggled on my own ill take on an apprentice no sweat! I was paid £2 / hour! thats £16 a day.... £80 a week.... £320 a month.... £3840 a year for a laborer haha

i got £6 /week , rising to £9/week. but that was back in the days of AVO8's. LOL.

 

[TaffyDuck]

Sounds like you have had a bad experience. Dont tar us all with the same brush. If my apprentices dont work their balls off at college or at work, and if the college dont deliver, then i am very quick to get on their cases.

Not tarring any apprentices. Both of mine have been good lads, one is now earning a fortune in the Ozzy mines and one is still with me. I pay minimum wage during their training, not the apprentice rate which is less but the national one. The issue remains that I get inundated with crap, called up on the day and TOLD that they are coming to site to waste a few hours of my time, I ask the assessor simple electrical questions which he doesnt know the answers to as often as not, and they get paid for doing this. I got the two lads through, that and their hard work, but the colleges( both local ones) are crap.

Thats why I`ll never do it again, I do the work, they get the money

 

[Guest55]

i got £6 /week , rising to £9/week. but that was back in the days of AVO8's. LOL.

Avo ??? you must be a millionaire !
i used to dream of a h'penny a month , eating coal , living in a cardboard box .........



;-)

 

[Adam W]

And if it is 15k a year per student its a rip off. No way is that value for money.

TBH I just picked that figure out of the air - I think it's around £2k a year for the college to train them, then you'd need to pay them a wage - if an employer doesn't do that the responsibility will presumably fall on the taxpayer.

What I meant was I couldn't get an apprenticeship when I was the right age, then I couldn't get a permanent job as an adult trainee, so I had to muddle through scratching around for agency work as a mate. Doing it all while working for a company would have been a much better way of doing it.