Are some PV panels better than others?

[Gozoman]

Sorry you feel that way Vegelen. Personally I thought that was the idea of the forum, to provide an opportunity for people with the necessary knowledge and experience in a particular subject to help others by passing that knowledge and experience on. Personally if someone with your attitude called at my house to quote for a job I'd tell you where you could go!

 

[Vegelen]

Earlier in the posting I provided you with a number of website's showing you solar panels, their efficiency, size etc to help you find the best solar panels for your roof.

You indicated that you didnt like Chinese products and wouldnt buy them.

You mentioned that you'd been offered Chinese manufactured Samil Inverters and Chinese manufactured Linuo solar panels, which you asked forum members for opinions on.

A 5 second internet search would tell you about the provenance of Samil inverters and Linuo panels.

 

[SolarCity]

I don't have much to add to this discussion (as I'm on a sporadic hotel Wifi connection for a start), but I will say that "Cheap Chinese crap" isn't a very accurate description of most imported panels.

Linuo are great panels. If you decide against these and choose to install British made instead, then there is a very high probability that you will pay more for a lesser quality item.

But as you suggest earlier in this thread, you may buy British out of loyalty anyway.

 

[Gozoman]

To be honest Solarcity I didn't know that panels were manufactured in Britain, but now that I do I would probably agree with you that the quality might not be up to some of the more established makers. And it's not a case of buying British out of any form of loyality. I would probably be more inclined to buy German as I have always found the quality of German products to be better. But that the whole point of my original post. I could run a search on the web and find these great write-ups about German panels or French panels or Swiss panels or whatever but where would that get me? I thought that people who were installing them for a living and had been doing so for years would be able to give an honest opinion of what to go for. I have no doubt there are quality products coming out of China but practically every fake product in this country was made in China. If you were fitting wall sockets in a house would you go for a trusted make like MK or would you be happy fitting MK fakes made in China which have been shown to catch fire under load? As an electrician you would probably be able to spot the difference but they would look the same to me. I can't see me going with the Chinese manufactured Samil Inverter and Chinese manufactured Linuo solar panels because I just wouldn't trust them. And when the panels are only rated at 11.8% efficiency they wouldn't be worth it anyway.

​

 

[Vegelen]

SMA are very high quality German inverters with a long operational reliability record - expensive but good.
The Chinese Solar panel manufacturers undercut the German solar panel manufacturers and many German companies went bankrupt, due to the Chinese dumping solar panels in Europe at very low prices. The manufacturing equipment from many of these factories was shipped overseas to China.
Now some German panels are made in China, to the same standards they were made in Germany, on German production lines.
The Chinese solar industry is currently over producing solar panels and prices have reduced as supply is far exceeding demand.
China is trying to stimulate its internal solar market to try to mop up some of this excess oversupply.
It is a good time to buy solar hardware due to current low prices.
If you feel very strongly about buying Chinese hardware, there are a few European factories that still manufacture panels.

 

[Gary K]

You need to make a decision as to how much cash you are prepared to spend. If you want a decent system for as little as possible then it is very likely you will end up with chinese panels but as already stated, they are in the whole not a bad product. If on the other hand you want to cram as much output as possible on your smallish roof,then you will have to pay out for premium panels like Panasonic(sanyo) or Sunpower which have efficiency getting on for 20% but as always for quality gear, you may end up paying getting on for double(at a guess) what the cheaper system costs.

 

[Gozoman]

I'm beginning to see that this is going to be a minefield if German branded panels are coming out of China! I often think what a better world it would be if China sank!

 

[Gozoman]

Thanks for that Gary. I have read that Sunpower are very good but as you say very expensive to match. As you say my problem is a small roof so I really need to get as much output as possible. Not sure I could stretch to double my present quote to achieve that though!

 

[Vegelen]

Focus on finding the right solar panel for your limited roof space, with a good efficiency, at an acceptable price and quality.
The links I specified earlier, will help you do this.
I'd personally install Monocrystaline solar panels, in preference to Poly's but thats a personal choice as many good Polycrystaline panels exist.
Canadian Solar, Linuo, Panasonic, REW Premium Plus, Suntech, Sunpower, Znshine are excellent panel manufacturers.
Be careful which panels you choose from a chosen manufacturer as panel efficiency / quality can and does vary from brand to brand.

 

[Gozoman]

Thanks Vegelen.

 

[SRE]

Of course if you work with a local installer, who can show you several satisfied customers and you don't force the price down they will be happy to show you the way to go. It's taken a long time and quite a bit of trial and error to get the expertise found on the forum. There's little more frustrating than someone picking your brains and then screwing you on price. If you want a quality installation service you will need to pay for it, but installers on here provide that service at a fair price.

 

[Gozoman]

I don't think there is anyone local. If there is I haven't found them. Closest I have found I think was Belfast.

 

[SRE]

I se what you mean - only 2 installers in NI Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Installer Search. If you ask nicely maybe one of the guys on the forum might be prepared to drive over and do the job for you - obviously you'd need to pay for the travel etc but then again you'd know you were getting good info and a decent installation. It's a long term investment so you should get the job done properly

 

[Gozoman]

I'm waiting for a PowerNI rep to call me next week to arrange an appointment. Given that I used to work gor them and they are the power suppliers here I'd like to see what they can offer. Trying to get them to contact me is like pulling teeth. You would tghink they would be glad of the work but after two emails went unanswered I had to ring them on Friday. Hopewfully I'll know more by the end of next week.

 

[SRE]

My advice would be to talk to a smaller company and definitely not a rep. Yesterday I went to a house where they had had 4 reps in the last 2 days. Some wanted to install on a N facing roof, some wanted to put 1kwp more than the roof would hold, none saw a chimney on the middle of the roof or that the roof needed re-inforcing. A rep will move from job to job, my customers can knock on the door if anything goes wrong. I don't want them to do that so we make sure they get the job they deserve not the one that helps us hit our bonus. You are in a difficult position but it may pay to work with someone who has had their MCS longer than June 2012 when the market was on it's knees.

 

[moggy1968]

I would say SMA are the inverter to go for. they're German, superb quality and have a great bluetooth interface as standard (on HF and TL, don't take any other SMA inverters though as they will be older and less efficient).

The other option might be microinverters such as enphase which will maximise your yield and could produce upto 20% more for an extra cost of about £600, more cost effective then going for something like panasonic panels.

IT may help if people name you some panels which aren't Chinese so you can research them, so here's a few to kick off with. Bosch (German) Samsung (Korean), Canadian Solar (strangely enough. Canadian!). Don't be fooled by Chinese panels with names that don't sound chinese. Some of the bigger instalers import container loads of chinese panels, some of which are rubbish, and put their own european sounding name on them. There are good chinese panels, Yingli and Suntec for example but I understand your reasoning.

I would like to say it is refreshing to see someone interested in more than just price, the pound shop mentality of some in this business properly does my head in!

 

[Gozoman]

No problem that way with PowerNI as they are the company in N. Ireland that own and run all the power stations and who I pay my bill to every quarter.

 

[Gozoman]

Thanks for that Moggy. I'm taking a note of these recomended panels and the inverter. Are the HF and TL you mention models of SMA inverters?

I'll have a look and see if I can find some information on those microinverters you mention.

 

[moggy1968]

they are yes

 

[Gozoman]

Moggy I was looking at that M125 Enphase Microinverter. Let me see if I understand this right. This uses a separate Microinverter for each installed solar panel. Are these a replacement for the usual inverter fitted in the loft or do they work along with it? Are there any problems with them being exposed to the elements?