Bizarre Issue with Chandelier Bulbs

[notmuchgoingon86]

I purchased a chandelier from Aliexpress (China) that came with bi pin G9 LED bulbs (3W equivalent) (pic attached). I asked the seller if this was dimmable and he said NO the bulbs are not dimmable. Apparently China uses cheap non-dimmable bulbs. But the seller told me I could purchase dimmable G9 bulbs and pair them with a dimmer switch and it would work. When I use the bulbs the factory sent me and hook it up to a normal switch (no dimmer), the chandelier works fine. When I replace those bulbs with dimmable G9s, I hear a loud pop and the light doesnt work. I have not tried hooking it up to a dimmer yet, but what is going on?? Is the pop because I am not using a dimmer with the G9 bulbs? Should that matter? Anyone have a clue and how I might solve my problem to use dimmable G9s with a Lutron dimmer. If so, what Lutron dimmer should I use? Meastro or Diva or something else that can handle the low output of the LEDs when dimmed? Update, I ordered a different G9 dimmable bulb (dimmable) and with a regular switch it came on (no pop) but at a very very faint level. Will this change if I add a Lutron dimmer? Thanks.

 

[westward10]

What happens when you refit the original bulbs.

 

[davesparks]

Are you using the correct voltage G9 lamps?

 

[brianmoooore]

Lamp in pic isn't a G9 - it's a G4, and most (though not all) G4s are 12 volts.

 

[MJPD29]

Sounds live you've put mains onto a 12v fitting, check if there is a integrated transformer in the base

 

[DefyG]

This is a G9 lamp not the one youve shown.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Maybe the chandelier has been made to accommodate g4 bulbs, and been fitted with 240V g4's!, eg (these are 5W not 3W):

G4 Manufacturer, G9, E14 Supplier - Zhongshan SIBOJING Lighting Co. ,Ltd.

in which case, is the chandelier safe to use? I suppose 4mm pin spacing is OK?
if so it may be difficult to obtain dimmable bulbs for it!

Edit - these mains G4's are available in UK on Amazon I see (but all un-dimmable)

 

[MJPD29]

Interesting, I've never seen a mains g4 only 12v, not sure if I'd trust them.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Maybe the chandelier has been made to accommodate g4 bulbs, and been fitted with 240V g4's!, eg (these are 5W not 3W):

G4 Manufacturer, G9, E14 Supplier - Zhongshan SIBOJING Lighting Co. ,Ltd.

in which case, is the chandelier safe to use? I suppose 4mm pin spacing is OK?
if so it may be difficult to obtain dimmable bulbs for it!

Edit - these mains G4's are available in UK on Amazon I see (but all un-dimmable)

I tried the bulbs below and they caused the loud pop I described. There is no transformer on this chandelier. Just wires for each arm with connects to two bulbs.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L91Y6LZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

What happens when you refit the original bulbs.

Original G4 bulbs (non dimmable) from China work fine. Chandelier works. If I had a dimmer attached the dimmer gets fried.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Interesting, I've never seen a mains g4 only 12v, not sure if I'd trust them.

There is no transformer. This is main to G4 LED.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

This is a G9 lamp not the one youve shown.
View attachment 106085

Yes my error, I mean to say G4.

 

[brianmoooore]

Are there any markings on the original lamps?

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Sounds live you've put mains onto a 12v fitting, check if there is a integrated transformer in the base

There is no transformer. Just wires from each arm on the chandelier which I have bound all together and hooked up to the main. These G4's from China work directly with mains, no transformer. Yet other G4 bulbs I buy which are dimmable do not work. They create a loud pop and the dimmer gets fried.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Are you using the correct voltage G9 lamps?

How do I know what the correct voltage is? I asked the Chinese factory they said they bulbs are 3W equivalents. They hook up directly to the mains. No transformer. They work fine. When I put in dimmable G4 they create a loud pop and if I have a dimmer attached it gets fried but the chandelier is fine, I can refit the original bulbs from China and it works fine. But I have to put on a regular plain switch, no dimmer.

 

[brianmoooore]

What is the full spec of the replacement lamps?

 

[MJPD29]

If i was to guess I'd say the dimmable g4s you are getting are 12v and the pop is you blowing the internals up with mains voltage. Personally I don't trust these Chinese fittings and would be cautious about having them in my house.

 

[davesparks]

How do I know what the correct voltage is? I asked the Chinese factory they said they bulbs are 3W equivalents. They hook up directly to the mains. No transformer. They work fine. When I put in dimmable G4 they create a loud pop and if I have a dimmer attached it gets fried but the chandelier is fine, I can refit the original bulbs from China and it works fine. But I have to put on a regular plain switch, no dimmer.

As far as I know G4 lampholders are only rated for use up to 24V and must not be directly connected to mains voltage.

Can you post pictures of the lamps and the lampholders in the chandeliers?

You've mentioned both G4 and G9 lamps in this thread which is a little confusing

 

[davesparks]

Maybe the chandelier has been made to accommodate g4 bulbs, and been fitted with 240V g4's!, eg (these are 5W not 3W):

G4 Manufacturer, G9, E14 Supplier - Zhongshan SIBOJING Lighting Co. ,Ltd.

in which case, is the chandelier safe to use? I suppose 4mm pin spacing is OK?
if so it may be difficult to obtain dimmable bulbs for it!

Edit - these mains G4's are available in UK on Amazon I see (but all un-dimmable)

The OP isn't in the UK, they are in the USA.

 

[nicebutdim]

There is no transformer. This is main to G4 LED.

The issue of voltage has been raised several times, but you haven't yet addressed the questions posed.

Can you confirm if the G4 lamps that made a pop are indeed rated for mains voltage? As other respondents have pointed out, it's seems as though this is the issue.

Amazon sell dimable G4 lamps rated for mains voltage, but I make no recommendations and wouldn't want them in my own home. If these lamps are suited to your application, matching them with a dimmer may be another issue that doesn't easily resolve itself.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Original G4 bulbs (non dimmable) from China work fine. Chandelier works. If I had a dimmer attached the dimmer gets fried.

Hi notmuchgoingon86
The link you provided a while back shows you bought bulbs rated at 12-24volts, which you put into a chandelier running from the mains.
that is why they go pop. They are the wrong bulbs.
To achieve your goal, you need dimmable G4 220 - 240V (or maybe 120V if that is your mains voltage) bulbs.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Rockingit]

Just another thought….. if it’s a chandelier with loads of lamps, they could all be wired in series? So 20 lamps @ 12v = 240, etc. Just trying to demo a dimmer with a few lamps will throw the maths out and make them pop….

 

[brianmoooore]

The ad in the link is extremely confusing. As far as I can make out, they are offering a 3W 220-240V G4 lamp and a 5W 12V G4 lamp. I've no idea if either is dimmable.
There doesn't appear to be a 120V version, suitable for the US, although I understand split phase 240V is common there, but not normally used for lighting circuits.
Given the dubious quality of some of these imports, the best solution would probably be to convert to 12V and use a dimmable driver. OP hasn't said how many lamps are involved, but if it's many, then the current handling capacity of the cables might need some thought.

 

[Avo Mk8]

The ad in the link is extremely confusing. As far as I can make out, they are offering a 3W 220-240V G4 lamp and a 5W 12V G4 lamp. I've no idea if either is dimmable.
There doesn't appear to be a 120V version, suitable for the US, although I understand split phase 240V is common there, but not normally used for lighting circuits.
Given the dubious quality of some of these imports, the best solution would probably be to convert to 12V and use a dimmable driver. OP hasn't said how many lamps are involved, but if it's many, then the current handling capacity of the cables might need some thought.

The link in OP's post #9, in which he said these were the one's he tried that went pop, was what I was referring to this morning.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L91Y6LZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

These appear to be exclusively low-voltage, unless I'm missing something!

 

[Avo Mk8]

Hi notmuchgoingon86
Good luck with your search.

If your chandelier is running from a 120V supply, these should work if you use a dimmer designed for LED's:

https://www.amazon.com/ZHENMING-Bin-pin-Halogen-Equivalent-Lumens/dp/B01NBFBL3K/ref=sr_1_6?

 

[nicebutdim]

The link in OP's post #9, in which he said these were the one's he tried that went pop, was what I was referring to this morning.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L91Y6LZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

These appear to be exclusively low-voltage, unless I'm missing something!

I read through the thread several times and still missed that link, but voltage is clearly stated 12-24V DC.

Problem solved in post #3.

 

[mainline]

I read through the thread several times and still missed that link, but voltage is clearly stated 12-24V DC.

Problem solved in post #3.

Op had another thread going.

Wiring Question Chandelier - in - DIY Electrical Advice

, Wiring Question Chandelier, DIY Electrical Advice, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

He said it had 30 x G9s, and now he's using g4s ? Unless it's a completely different light he's talking about in this thread ?.

 

[Avo Mk8]

He said it had 30 x G9s

Or it seems G4's. That would explain why a dimmer goes pop with the bulbs supplied

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

If i was to guess I'd say the dimmable g4s you are getting are 12v and the pop is you blowing the internals up with mains voltage. Personally I don't trust these Chinese fittings and would be cautious about having them in my house.

Ok now I think I understand. Most LEDs require a transformer to step down the voltage to 12v. Since this product has no transformer, the G4 bulbs the Chinese provided are hooked up directly to the mains but are not dimmable. So it seems I have to try to located dimmable G4 bulbs that are rated for 120V. Does that sound right? And I am starting to agree with you. I am having some concerns about these Chinese fixtures I bought. But I see the same ones I bought on on Amazon being sold everyday.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Op had another thread going.

Wiring Question Chandelier - in - DIY Electrical Advice

, Wiring Question Chandelier, DIY Electrical Advice, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

He said it had 30 x G9s, and now he's using g4s ? Unless it's a completely different light he's talking about in this thread ?.

My error. I meant that the fixture uses G4, not G9.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

The issue of voltage has been raised several times, but you haven't yet addressed the questions posed.

Can you confirm if the G4 lamps that made a pop are indeed rated for mains voltage? As other respondents have pointed out, it's seems as though this is the issue.

Amazon sell dimable G4 lamps rated for mains voltage, but I make no recommendations and wouldn't want them in my own home. If these lamps are suited to your application, matching them with a dimmer may be another issue that doesn't easily resolve itself.

Ok now I think I understand. Most LEDs require a transformer to step down the voltage to 12v. Since this product has no transformer, the G4 bulbs the Chinese provided are hooked up directly to the mains but are not dimmable. So it seems I have to try to located dimmable G4 bulbs that are rated for 120V. Does that sound right? Is there a special type of dimmer that I need to look for as well. I purchased a Lutron Maestro LED dimmer.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

Or it seems G4's. That would explain why a dimmer goes pop with the bulbs supplied

I meant 30 G4, not G9. My apologies.

 

[notmuchgoingon86]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BJ46S43Z/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3LXN37TZW84D1&psc=1

Seems like these are the bulbs I should be buying for a US home.

 

[brianmoooore]

As a general rule, G9s are mains voltage and G4s are 12 volts, but there are a few exceptions, and if you can find 120 volt dimmable G4s your problem is solved. You caused considerable confusion on here by wrongly stating that the lamps are G9.
If this fitting has 30 lamps, then you're only going to want very low wattage ones, unless you're trying to light a banqueting hall with just one fitting. With 5W LEDs, the total would be 150W of LED lighting, which will be the order of 15000 lumens = very bright.
LEDs have a large inrush (start up) current, so with this number of lamps switching on at the same time, you'll have to make sure your chosen dimmer can handle this.