Breaker not tripping

[davesparks]

Neither has anyone till they get their first break though. Daz

But if they don't even have any tools they are unlikely to get that break!

 

[DPG]

Yes fair point about the tools. Daz

 

[Midwest]

But if they don't even have any tools they are unlikely to get that break!

Seem to remember when I started for a biggish local company, I had 3 tier cantilever toolbox, pair of snips, pair of pliers, hammer, couple of screwdrivers and a hacksaw, jack pooh else. Hardly comprehensive, someone gave me a job. Leap in the dark for them, or they knew they could make a tidy sum out of me towards the end of my apprenticeship, charging for an electrician for apprentice pay. Things always work both ways.

 

[ipf]

I've got to disagree with you wholeheartedly - not everyone knew what they wanted to do when they left school, and making the change later in life is the first chance some people get at making a go at something they really want.



As for the "craft and skill" being gone, I've seen some pretty dodgy work carried out by time-served sparks, and some pretty spectacular carried out by Electrical Trainee. As for the passion being gone - I disagree with that the most. I work 40-hour weeks full-time, then maybe another 10-15 hours in the electrical industry every week, added with 6 hours per week spent at night college, and every spare minute I get reading other technical books, or searching this place so I can learn as much as I can. Okay, I didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school, but I'm fortunate enough to have found out in time to do something about it. But your comment is nothing short of a sweeping statement, and tarring me (as well as others I know who work just as hard) with that brush displays nothing but closed mindedness. And it's that sort of attitude, that elitist snobbery, that the industry could do without in my honest opinion.

Sorry HT, I know your keen and no doubt work your ****s off but put things into perspective. In some cases your getting into issues way out of your depth. We all know of 'dodgy' work by time served sparks, I've been coming across them for the last 40 odd years. The way the trade has depreciated since the millennium, though, is beyond comprehension. In your current position, as a trainee, do you think you hold the experience and knowledge to comment on the electrical industry as a whole (craft and skill).
We all have our opinions and are entitled to think as we wish but experience of the way things were previously is a must if a comparison is being made.
By the way. I'm not being in the slightest bit snobbish or elitist. If someone can do the job to the required standard, I will employ them, if required.

 

[hightower]

In some cases your getting into issues way out of your depth.

You are probably right, but forgive me, there's a whole area dedicated to trainees, as well as the prestiged trainee badge. I'm learning a new trade mate, and if I wasn't getting out of my depth I wouldn't be doing very well at learning it would I? The past 18 months I've been out of my depth - that's how you learn. I'm not sure what else you expect of me?

The way the trade has depreciated since the millennium, though, is beyond comprehension. In your current position, as a trainee, do you think you hold the experience and knowledge to comment on the electrical industry as a whole (craft and skill).

Too true, I don't have the experience to comment on the electrical industry as a whole. But I wasn't born yesterday either, and just because I've only been training for 18 months doesn't mean I can't carry valid experiences and observations from other parts of life. The electrical industry isn't the only one to change over the past X amount of years.

Now, let us not forget. If the electrical industry really is on its knees, or changed for the poorer, exactly which generation is it that has made those changes and allowed it to happen? The answer, it seems to me, is the exact same generation that bangs on about it "not being like it used to be". I know one thing, it certainly wasn't my generation - I'm just trying to get on with the rules laid out in front of me.

 

[ipf]

You are probably right, but forgive me, there's a whole area dedicated to trainees, as well as the prestiged trainee badge. I'm learning a new trade mate, and if I wasn't getting out of my depth I wouldn't be doing very well at learning it would I? The past 18 months I've been out of my depth - that's how you learn. I'm not sure what else you expect of me?



Too true, I don't have the experience to comment on the electrical industry as a whole. But I wasn't born yesterday either, and just because I've only been training for 18 months doesn't mean I can't carry valid experiences and observations from other parts of life. The electrical industry isn't the only one to change over the past X amount of years.

Now, let us not forget. If the electrical industry really is on its knees, or changed for the poorer, exactly which generation is it that has made those changes and allowed it to happen? The answer, it seems to me, is the exact same generation that bangs on about it "not being like it used to be". I know one thing, it certainly wasn't my generation - I'm just trying to get on with the rules laid out in front of me.

It's not on it's knees but, for example, just look at the standard of basic materials these days. I have bush spanners for mb bushes....they won't even fit the carp provided these days. The rubbish trunking and conduit fittings, consumer unit connections, lack of stock at wholesalers....the list goes on.
When it comes to the changes made, the generation making the changes has nothing to do with it. It is all money orientated, the way the world has deteriated, I suppose. It's those in a position to make the changes....generally accountant fed.

I'm not saying some things haven't improved but it's certainly not the standard of 'hands on' sparking.

 

[hightower]

All I'm trying to say is this: for the sake of arguments let's say the industry has changed for the worse. What do we do? We have people urging us to take an industry recognised route rather than a Electrical Trainee. Then the same people pipe up that training isn't the same as it used to be. It means nothing to us, it's nothing more than a whinge on. It helps us none. All I can do is adhere to the rules laid out for me. Work my pods off to make it. Do everything in my power to make this work for me. Then somebody comes along and says 'bah lad trainees are naff nowadays' with someone else to come along shortly after saying 'you're out your depth'. And then wonder why I get vexed. If I tried to tar all time served with the same brush people would be right on me, yet it's OK to call all trainees poor, and then furthermore lay blame at their door for the way the industry is.

The simple matter is, there's good trainees and poor ones in all walks of life. Good and bad workers too. But I've never seen an industry as a whole so worried about new people wanting to enter it. It's time the nay sayers got behind the ones who are in it for real, help us. Otherwise all you'll be left with is the trainees you didn't want.

 

[hightower]

By the way, I'm trying to be very careful with my words as there's so many older time served folk on here who have been nothing but helpful. They're the ones who are helping the industry, and to those guys - I thank you. You all know who you are.

 

[davesparks]

Seem to remember when I started for a biggish local company, I had 3 tier cantilever toolbox, pair of snips, pair of pliers, hammer, couple of screwdrivers and a hacksaw, jack pooh else. Hardly comprehensive, someone gave me a job. Leap in the dark for them, or they knew they could make a tidy sum out of me towards the end of my apprenticeship, charging for an electrician for apprentice pay. Things always work both ways.

But in this case the person without any tools is claiming to be fully qualified, and presumably expecting to be paid as such.

Obviously I wouldn't expect an apprentice to have anything but their sandwiches with them on their first day, but a fully qualified person should at least have hand tools

 

[telectrix]

HT, if all trainees had your attitude then the industry in the future would look good.

 

[hightower]

HT, if all trainees had your attitude then the industry in the future would look good.

If everyone had your attitude it wouldn't be shagged in the first place

 

[Leesparkykent]

HT, if all trainees had your attitude then the industry in the future would look good.

Spot on :icon14:

 

[ipf]

When it comes to the changes made, the generation making the changes has nothing to do with it. It is all money orientated, the way the world has deteriated, I suppose. It's those in a position to make the changes....generally accountant fed.

Deteriorated...................sorry!

 

[ipf]

HT, if all trainees had your attitude then the industry in the future would look good.

Well said, tel. couldn't agree more.

I must be one of those old fuddies though...a H+S officer asked me to get my log book out today. I told him I haven't got it to hand at present......but I've got my slide rule, if that'll do.:dunce2: :wink_smile:

 

[Paul.M]

IPF what are you like? You dont show your face for a year and then kick up a storm :rofl:

Givus a call some time.

 

[Midwest]

But in this case the person without any tools is claiming to be fully qualified, and presumably expecting to be paid as such.

Obviously I wouldn't expect an apprentice to have anything but their sandwiches with them on their first day, but a fully qualified person should at least have hand tools

You're quite right, had to look back at the original remark, and it was referring to a 'qualified' electrician.




Apprenticeship is the way to go. But for those people that get themselves trained, and pay for their training, will all need that 'big break' for some employer to take them on to work for the very first time.

When I was an apprentice & electrician way back when, there were bodger 'qualified' electricians and electricians claiming to be 'qualified'. I like to think I wasn't one of them! The trunking was carp, you made your own bends, and the bodgers bodged them. Wholesalers never had next week delivery, let alone next day. And you would struggle to take a pride in your work, cos the contracts manager wanted the work done, in less time than they quoted for. But you voted with your feet with a crappy firm.

Having returned to the industry in the last few years, I don't feel its any different, apart from more rules & regulations, more multi tooled accessories you can shake a Yankee Screwdriver at, ohhh .........and less apprentices, no offence Hightower.

On a rather sombre note: “Things aren't what they used to be' is the rallying cry of small minds. When men say things used to be better, they invariably mean they were better for them, because they were young, and had all their hopes intact. The world is bound to look a darker place as you slide into the grave.” (Joe Abercrombie, Best Served Cold)[h=1][/h]

 

[DPG]

Excellent quote - and very true! Daz

 

[HappyHippyDad]

10 posts about a breaker not tripping 23 posts mainly about not having tools and one post starting a spin off series more suited to Jeremy Kyle.

I love this forum:smile5:

 

[hightower]

KoFi - I too, have just spotted the bit about claiming to be qualified. I stand by what I've said in terms of adult trainees etc, but I'd like to apologise - in retrospect, I think I was a little quick to jump down your throat. As HHD has said, the thread has started to resemble something off Jeremy Kyle, and I've played my part in that. The industry is difficult enough to break in to without making enemies, so hopefully we can draw a line under this and move forward?

 

[telectrix]

there's a line under this and it's moving forward. that do?