Budget Solar 4KW system for £8000 fitted

[SolarCity]

I'm not sure that one panel dropping out would be a problem. It would only create a problem if you replaced the panel with a lesser panel - which obviously isn't what is happening.

 

[SRE]

I'm sure the warranty says it will replace or compensate at the manufacturers discretion. In 10 years it will be compensation methinks ......

 

[The Launderer]

They will have to! All MCS pannels have to have a 25year preformance garntee that say that they will not drop below 80% efficiancy. if one stops working then the system stops producing. There for it has droped below 80% efficiancy. Its in black and white.

What you are suggesting is that if a panel stops working it is going to be less than 80% efficient therefore the Manufacturers are in effect giving a 25 year guarantee.

Sanyo Guarantee certificate gives

1. 10 year limited guarantee on materials and workmanship
2. Minimum power output guarantees of 90% up to 10 years and 80% 11-25 years.

There is absolutely no way that Sanyo or any other PV manufacturer are going to accept that that a panel failing completely after say 11 years is not meeting the minimum power output guarantees. You can be sure that if you go through the fine print there will be clauses in place that means the 10 guarantee on materials and workmanship is the extent of their liability. It will only be if the panel is working normally but it can be shown that the power output is less than 80% that the guarantee would apply.

I don't think they will replace one panel if it completely fails after 10 years and if you think they are going to replace the whole array if one panel fails or isn't meeting power output I think you are going to be disappointed

 

[TedM]

Agreed. People should actually read the Sanyo (and others) guarantees to see what is excluded. For example, damage caused by ageing and continuous use are excluded. Isn't 'ageing' exactly what people are expecting to be covered by the 20 year power output guarantee? And quite how 'continuous use' is defined for a PV panel is a bit difficult to find. Does it mean 'in sunlight 24 hours a day' (ridiculous for something fitted to a house) or something else?

And it's also worth noting that Sanyo do not guarantee to replace any modules that are under performing. They may just give you an additional module to make up for the deficiency. That could mean that if you have a 240W module that has dropped to 200W, they will just give you a 40W module. How and where you fit it is then your problem.

I'm not saying this is what Sanyo will do - just that is what the wording in their guarantee allows them to do if they want.

 

[daytona600]

ja solar had riot last week at there factory for polluting the local river with very dangerous chemicals killing all the fish- see bbc website - cheap modules all have there drawbacks especially if you live nearby

results on good quality producers see SolarScorecard.com | 2011

 

[daytona600]

what will sanyo do about future warranties as they don,t exsist anymore ( matsu****a panasonic ) bought them google sanyo

 

[TedM]

Sanyo are owned by Panasonic - but are still a separate brand and their own limited company (in Japan) and represented in Europe by Sanyo Sales & Marketing Europe GmbH at least for the time being. Panasonic have said they plan to phase out the Sanyo brand next year, but they will still be responsible for continuing to support the warranties.

 

[morph]

not a pv installer so forgive me !

but if its about £6 for the materials for a 4KW system why is £ 8k such a ridiculas figure ? how many man hours are need to do the job properly

 

[SolarCity]

not a pv installer so forgive me !

but if its about £6 for the materials for a 4KW system why is £ 8k such a ridiculas figure ? how many man hours are need to do the job properly

Material are far more than £6k. Scaffold, labour, certification, warranties, diesel, delivery, structural calcs etc. push it much further. A good 12 hours paperwork for each install.

I'm a quick and efficient worker, yet I work 100 hours a week and still earn less than a train driver or a fireman. From speaking to other installers on this forum, I know I'm not alone. I'd lose money before I'd even set foot on site if I tried to match £8k

 

[MorganPVI]

All of the above +
How about the cost of storing the panels, disposing of the packaging materials, handling the panels either manually or on a rented fork truck, renting a secure store, insuring your stock, paying rates on the store and office required to process paperwork. Staff costs, electric,gas,water capital cost of vans, fuel ( our monthly fuel bill is triple my wages).

 

[CG_Sparks]

That price is ridiculous! budget solar might be using cheap chinese panels, but did they think about most chinese companies liquidation patterns? The product warranties will be 5 years or so, but whose to say the company will still be around in that time for customers to claim against faulty panels and output etc......

 

[solarsavings]

Agreed. People should actually read the Sanyo (and others) guarantees to see what is excluded. For example, damage caused by ageing and continuous use are excluded. Isn't 'ageing' exactly what people are expecting to be covered by the 20 year power output guarantee? And quite how 'continuous use' is defined for a PV panel is a bit difficult to find. Does it mean 'in sunlight 24 hours a day' (ridiculous for something fitted to a house) or something else?

And it's also worth noting that Sanyo do not guarantee to replace any modules that are under performing. They may just give you an additional module to make up for the deficiency. That could mean that if you have a 240W module that has dropped to 200W, they will just give you a 40W module. How and where you fit it is then your problem.

I'm not saying this is what Sanyo will do - just that is what the wording in their guarantee allows them to do if they want.

Insightful (or should that be inciteful on these forums) as ever Ted.

Any chance you could give the contributor(s) of some of the amendments in the new installation draft a helping hand to ensure we are able to make sense of it once finished.

 

[Ramjam]

I think Budget solar appear to be doing a great deal for their customers, the problem is that we could all be busy fools. Problem is they make no money which is a good deal for the customers right up until they start going out of business which they will if they don't reflect their costs in their prices. When companies go under the customers lose out, half completed jobs and lost (but hopefully insured) deposits.

The damage they do to the rest of us is regrettable but it's easily done...

Buy cheap stuff for £6k, install for £8k - £2k gross profit.....scaffold, labour, overheads, cost of expansion to meet demand all adds up to a trading loss......problem is new orders, new deposits all disguise this trading loss leading to a rapidly growing business bomb. It would be nice to think it will be isolated but mark my words, many of our more irksome competitors will disappear soon having made this simple mistake. Its a shame but the vast majority of new businesses fail and whilst our industry is growing rapidly many will still fail.

There are solid businesses run by sensible businessmen who will grow sensibly, make a profit and provide value to their customers, suppliers and employees. There will also be fools who think there is a killing to be made either by cutting their own throat or by ripping off customers. Both of these types of fools will damage our collective reputation but don't get drawn in. I'm fully booked until mid January and charge £11,700 for 4kWp, customer referals mainly. I'm sure many of you in the forum are doing better than me, drive nicer cars and have nicer holidays but I'm very content and I know I'll be here to honour my 10year workmanship warranty in the very unlikely event that one of my first class installations develops a fault.

 

[pto]

"and I know I'll be here to honour my 10year workmanship warranty " thats a bold statement

Jack

 

[GreggElectrical]

I think Budget solar appear to be doing a great deal for their customers, the problem is that we could all be busy fools. Problem is they make no money which is a good deal for the customers right up until they start going out of business which they will if they don't reflect their costs in their prices. When companies go under the customers lose out, half completed jobs and lost (but hopefully insured) deposits.

The damage they do to the rest of us is regrettable but it's easily done...

Buy cheap stuff for £6k, install for £8k - £2k gross profit.....scaffold, labour, overheads, cost of expansion to meet demand all adds up to a trading loss......problem is new orders, new deposits all disguise this trading loss leading to a rapidly growing business bomb. It would be nice to think it will be isolated but mark my words, many of our more irksome competitors will disappear soon having made this simple mistake. Its a shame but the vast majority of new businesses fail and whilst our industry is growing rapidly many will still fail.

There are solid businesses run by sensible businessmen who will grow sensibly, make a profit and provide value to their customers, suppliers and employees. There will also be fools who think there is a killing to be made either by cutting their own throat or by ripping off customers. Both of these types of fools will damage our collective reputation but don't get drawn in. I'm fully booked until mid January and charge £11,700 for 4kWp, customer referals mainly. I'm sure many of you in the forum are doing better than me, drive nicer cars and have nicer holidays but I'm very content and I know I'll be here to honour my 10year workmanship warranty in the very unlikely event that one of my first class installations develops a fault.

Couldn't agree more, I have been tempted to go to sub 10K on simple 4.0kw installs for existing clients but decided against it. The busy fool statement is beginning to sound a bit too close to home.