Building Regs

[greyt]

I had a solar installation in December. I had detailed discussions with the sales guy regarding buildings regulations and our concern that we back onto an open field and experience higher than average winds for the area. He reassured me that the installation would go through full buildings regulations and hence even if we had a roof issue in the future we could claim off our buildings insurance since we could prove that everything was installed correctly due to having the buildings regulations.

The installers web site states :

We will send our surveyor to conduct a detail structural survey before any works are conducted

Their terms and conditions state that it is the solar installer’s responsibility to “obtain buildings regulation approval”

After the installation was complete I withheld 13% of the overall payment until the buildings regulations were approved.

The installer told us that the delay was due to the council taking longer than normal.

I can see that there is a building regulation submission on the council’s website which states “Decision Not Yet Determined”

Last week the installer provided us with the final buildings regulations certificate. It is from a Building Control Company and is headed “Section 51 of the Building Act 1984, The Building (Approved Inspectors etc.) Regulations 2010”. It simply states that they are the inspector for the work that was described to them before the installation took place and that after the work has been completed they have “performed the functions assigned to us by regulation 8 of the 2010 requirements”

We spoke to the Building Control Company and they have provided us with the information that this was all based on. This consisted of photos of our roof structure and house before the installation took place.

I am unclear how anyone can be sure that the right fixings have been used, water penetration tests have been used etc. Also the house has timbers of 70mm by 35mm (565mm spacing). I thought I had read that 35mm timbers needed additional work?

Am I being paranoid? All we want to know is that the work has really been done properly and the roof integrity is still sound. In addition if there was ever an issue then our buildings insurance would cover it….. I struggle to see how any of this can be done when no-one appears to have looked at the final installation.

 

[powervan]

U wont know till you have a problem! you said (salesman) prob not a good sign! nitty gritty is did fitters seem to know what they were doing? are you pleased with install? we have been back to a job (for another company) and it was poor! ie 1 fixing per bracket! wind calcs would be worthless ! wrong mid/end clamps ! it will never last 25yrs but nor will company !! all in all bits of paper are worthless when the companies have gone! you may be worrying about nothing? only TIME will tell !!

 

[greyt]

U wont know till you have a problem! you said (salesman) prob not a good sign! nitty gritty is did fitters seem to know what they were doing? are you pleased with install? we have been back to a job (for another company) and it was poor! ie 1 fixing per bracket! wind calcs would be worthless ! wrong mid/end clamps ! it will never last 25yrs but nor will company !! all in all bits of paper are worthless when the companies have gone! you may be worrying about nothing? only TIME will tell !!

That is why I assumed that the complete buildings regs were the safely blanket that the final installation would be sound. The installers did seem very good - but it is really the wind loadings and strength of the roof that I have a long term concern about.

I am realistic that there is always a chance that there can be long term issues, but that is why I wanted to be in a position to claim of buildings insurance if the situation arose....... Assuming this is even the right approach do I have the correct paperwork?

 

[sambotc]

I think (but am happy to be corrected) that the onus lies in the hands of the installer, who will have self certified that the work carried out meets the relevant standards (2 screws for example) and that the correct procedure regarding wind and structure calculations were met before work commenced.

It's not the job of the structural engineer to sit looking over the installers shoulder checking everything is done to the book, they are instructed to make the calculations to assess the roof itself.

I'm not sure what, if any, responsibility MCS will take in the event of a problem at a later date as I haven't got that far into figuring it all out yet? Probably nothing to be honest, they would just strike the installer off the register, if they are still on it at that time.

It's the same deal as with any other trade, you have to take the tradesmens word on the work they do being satisfactory, you wouldn't ask building control to watch while your plumber fits a new radiator, and even new builds aren't under constant supervision!

Not sure about the insurance side of things, but I would presume if has all the relevant documentation then you are covered?

 

[Earthstore]

Here goes.. If your timbers are 35mm, it sounds like you have pre formed trusses, in which case by design it should be fine for the loading of the extra weight, however being only 35mm you can not get 3 fixings per bracket into the rafter, it should have an extra timber fixed to the rafter to allow for the 3 fixings, unless, of course, the company used a system called klik-fit, which, although portrayed to be MCS compliant, is generally frowned upon within the Industry.
If you are really concerned, and want peace of mind, for £100-£250, contact a good, local structural surveyor to inspect it for you.

I hope this helps.

 

[powervan]

Fixings !! we only put 2 fixings in each bracket! but i can assure u the roof will blow off before my brackets come loose! its all about builing knowledge!! ie what your fixing into? size of fixing ? Too few - too many will have same effect (crap install) panels laying on your lawn in the morning!! if we had to up the timbers then yes we would fix 3 times but on the installs we have done we havnt had to!! ps earthstore has !!LOADS!! of knowledge

 

[sambotc]

Never heard of 3 fixings before! why not 4?

I always pilot the holes and pop them in with a decent impact driver (without coming out the side!) Never had any issues and we've had some testing conditions lately! I personally think the priority is getting enough brackets in, equally spaced and we always put an extra one in on the ends of the array, plus making sure the panels don't have excessive overhang and the last bracket is no more than 250mm from the end of the array. I think the problem would arise if there was sufficient movement to allow the fixings to work loose overtime.

But..... time will tell I guess?

 

[solarsavings]

But..... time will tell I guess?

or..................someone on here

 

[MorganPVI]

Sorry to hear of your troubles greyt, I can place you contact with a national chain of survyors that can do an assesment based on photos and diagrams or make a home visit to your property, PM me if you like.

ALWAYS insist on a structual survey from an independent structual engineer that has suitable Professional Indemity insurance, choose wisely as you want to be able to claim in the event of problems 10-15 years down the line, rather than blowing your no claims discount on your home insurance.

My advice to customers is that you should do due dilligence, as alot of salespersons will lie to your face to get you to sign on the dotted line. Cavet Empor. Also, always double check the company you choose is MCS registered and a member of REAL. Just because they have the logos on the paperwork does not mean they are legit, also I would highly recommend checking references and inspecting any local work.

 

[greyt]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

The key thing I wanted to know is if the paperwork sounded in order. I am a little puzzled why I was told that the council were holding things up and now a 3rd party company is dealing with the buildings regs, whist the coucil website shows "decision not determined"

I don't want to be witholding payment if everything is in order and the installer has met their contractual obligations regarding buildings regs.

 

[Earthstore]

Just for info.

 

[powervan]

Nice job as i would expect from u!! get ur compasssssssssssssss out and check that roofs not north

 

[cbw]

Thats exactly what I thought with all that moss!!!!!

 

[Earthstore]

You should see the north side....
It is just olde worlde Cotswold character .

 

[greyt]

For what its worth, here are pictures of the install. I appreciate it may not show much, but does anything look untoward?

 

[MorganPVI]

Are your panels 800mm wide, otherwise the roof anchor spacing looks a little large.

 

[greyt]

panels are Suntech 195w (1580x808x35mm)

 

[sambotc]

To much overhang from last bracket to end of panel on right hand side in my opinion, awkward to see due to picture but looks like about 500mm to me!

 

[powervan]

i think ???? max is ment to be 450mm if i remember corectly!!but im sure i will be corrected:0

 

[dansk]

ditto, apart from bracket spacing and rails not plumb it looks ok.