compulsory E.I.C's for domestic properties?

[MerlinGremlin]

Good afternoon all hope all is well, just a quick question to everyone and to get some feedback. How many agree that all domestic properties should have to have a 20% test done each year to comply with building insurance and make homes much safer? All thoughts welcome please gents and ladies!

 

[Pete999]

Bit costly for the average home owner I would have thought

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I understand that a cost would come into it but can you put a price on safety?

 

[dazza1981]

Good afternoon all hope all is well, just a quick question to everyone and to get some feedback. How many agree that all domestic properties should have to have a 20% test done each year to comply with building insurance and make homes much safer? All thoughts welcome please gents and ladies!

Not each year no that is way overboard IMHO !!!!!

 

[GMES]

I personally think that if the Electrical Trainee's were not allowed to train for 17 days and then immediately be allowed to work on domestic properties, then there would be no need or reason to test a property annually.

 

[nickblake]

It would open the doors to all sorts half the EICR's done these days are not worth the paper its written on , making homes safer is great , but wouldn't work sadly there are to may dodgy inspections taking place now to make any difference , there is no requirement to comply with building insurance up to the individual companies to ask for an EICR

 

[Knobhead]

You’re not interested in safety are you? It’s a money grubbing scheme.

 

[trev]

It's a ridiculous idea, where did you dream that one up?
However, it is only a matter of time before someone in the (parasite) insurance industry cottons on to the clause in every home insurance policy about keeping the property in good order through proper maintenance and uses it as a get out of paying a claim excuse.
We will then witness a scramble as all insurers make regular EICRs a stipulated condition, this will be closely followed by a race to the bottom as idiotic people undercut each other in the hope of cornering their local market in them. Following this will be a massive upsurge in drive by reporting with every property being given a clean bill of health.
RIP domestic electrical trade, it was **** poor to start with, then got worse.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I'm interested in safety Tony but I know where your coming from, other people would jump on the band wagon and rip people off and I also agree there are a lot of reports out there not worth the paper there written on but how can we stop it? Every scheme they bring in costs the pro electrician money causing people to opt for cowboys to carry out work as it's cheaper so how do these part P schemes etc suppose to deter bad workmanship? In my eyes it's made it worse!

 

[trev]

A former member came up with this idea a while back, it was stupid then and it still is. Next you'll be calling for compulsory RCDs.
This will not improve safety one iota as it will result in what I described above.

 

[dazza1981]

So somebody house has just been rewired has all test certs showing satisfactory results and everything is 17th edition and tip top condition........... you would advise them that they should have a 20 percent test done a year from when it was installed ?????
Annoys me this because if say my nan who lives alone took your advice and you fleeced her unnecessarily i would be hunting you down !!!

 

[camerabloke]

Why not. You have to pay for an MOT

 

[trev]

Why not. You have to pay for an MOT

Ridiculous, think about it for a moment.
Your vehicle is subjected to a far greater degree of wear and tear than a house. Things wear out and suffer mechanical damage.
Yes a house needs maintenance but there is no comparison.

 

[dazza1981]

Why not. You have to pay for an MOT

You are kidding me ?????

 

[Knobhead]

if say my nan who lives alone took your advice and you fleeced her unnecessarily i would be hunting you down !!!

I think a few would help you.

It should be like the grouse season. Go out a bag a couple of brace of 5WWs Then hang them until their tails drop off.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Dazza 1981 I've not given any advice the only reason I brought it up is because a friend of mine is in insurance and he was telling me they didn't pay out on a claim because the electrical install was below standards and no test certs etc could be provided to prove they were okay! So I was asking the question what people thought about it, what might become compulsory in the very near future

 

[Zebra Stripe]

I think its a smashing idea, say some form of Condition Report every five years mandatory or risk the wrath of the insurance man. Unsatisfactory result incurs a higher insurance premium, satisfactory results in a lower one. Its gonna happen eventually.

 

[nickblake]

I think its a smashing idea, say some form of Condition Report every five years mandatory or risk the wrath of the insurance man. Unsatisfactory result incurs a higher insurance premium, satisfactory results in a lower one. Its gonna happen eventually.

would love it who would police it no one then you will also get an increase in employment agents ringing up for 6 EICR's to be done in a day and it would be bodge it brigade that do it
and potentially miss some thing ,for example EICR done last year In a shower walls cladded nail cuts earth in half yet the EICR was satisfactory

 

[shanky887614]

would love it who would police it no one then you will also get an increase in employment agents ringing up for 6 EICR's to be done in a day and it would be bodge it brigade that do it
and potentially miss some thing ,for example EICR done last year In a shower walls cladded nail cuts earth in half yet the EICR was satisfactory

that is because all these people test to the isolator not at the fitting so there not worth the paper they are written on.

 

[UNG]

I'm interested in safety

This is heading to the thin end of the wedge where does it end an EICR, gas check how about we throw in a roof check to make sure a tile doesn't fall on someone all done annually. Exactly how interested in safety are you or is my tongue in cheek idea over the top with all the checks the insurance premium would have to be next to nothing for all the expense incurred

Why not. You have to pay for an MOT

An MOT costs me less than £30 and it's currently under consideration by the government to shift to an MOT every 2 years what would a annual 20% EICR cost.

A dodgy vehicle has the ability to kill a lot of people in one incident so you can't use this as an example IMO

 

[UNG]

Dazza 1981 I've not given any advice the only reason I brought it up is because a friend of mine is in insurance and he was telling me they didn't pay out on a claim because the electrical install was below standards and no test certs etc could be provided to prove they were okay! So I was asking the question what people thought about it, what might become compulsory in the very near future

I don't think an insurance company can make it compulsory they may make it a requirement for insurance, would you care to tell us what was so below standard on the install your friend mentions as it all sounds a bit hypothetical and testing the water for an insurance company to sign you up to an annual inspection scheme

I think its a smashing idea, say some form of Condition Report every five years mandatory or risk the wrath of the insurance man. Unsatisfactory result incurs a higher insurance premium, satisfactory results in a lower one. Its gonna happen eventually.

There are times when this forum could do with a disagree or thumbs down button for posts like this

 

[Knobhead]

I think its a smashing idea, say some form of Condition Report every five years mandatory or risk the wrath of the insurance man. Unsatisfactory result incurs a higher insurance premium, satisfactory results in a lower one. Its gonna happen eventually.

Wondered how long it would take for you to jump on the band wagon.

A hint of a quick buck and here you are.

 

[telectrix]

might be a good idea in principal. hypothetically, an genuine EICR every 5 years costing , say, £250, with the insurance companies giving a £50/annum discount on seeing a copy of the report. Sparks earn money, the cost is recovered by the home owner through the reduced premium. everyone's a winner.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Ung I'm cards in with a company so it wouldn't interest me if an insurance company tried tapping me up I wouldn't entertain it, with gas you have the chance to smell it, you have carbon monoxide alarms and you can only work on it if your gas registered! With electricity you can't smell it, see it or fit alarms to warn you its present and dangerous and then the next thing you know you've been struck by the tail of the devil!

 

[gutterball]

it won't work the home owners only worry about the electrics when some thing goes wrong. how many houses do you go into where the sticker on the board for next test due is 5 or 10 years out of date and the 1/4 rcd test is never done.

 

[stevethesparks]

I can just imagine that the same 20% being checked every year i.e. the easiest locations, and the remaining 80% never getting a look in - and thats for the ones that would get done at all.
In my humble opinion, the only EICR's carried out should be a full and comprehensive inspection

 

[MerlinGremlin]

I understand there will be costs incurred by the homeowners or landlords but surely as sparks we should all be thinking along the line of raising standards in domestic properties, it would be hard to police and make sure all circuits tested etc if it saves lives then I'm all for it, or even if it became compulsory to have one done before you can sell your house? Or every 10 years just to check everything is okay? Some of the houses I've worked in over the years have been death traps due to people adding things on and not knowing what there doing, this could prevent someone being killed hopefully.

 

[Plonker 3]

I understand there will be costs incurred by the homeowners or landlords but surely as sparks we should all be thinking along the line of raising standards in domestic properties, it would be hard to police and make sure all circuits tested etc if it saves lives then I'm all for it, or even if it became compulsory to have one done before you can sell your house? Or every 10 years just to check everything is okay? Some of the houses I've worked in over the years have been death traps due to people adding things on and not knowing what there doing, this could prevent someone being killed hopefully.

Part P ring any bells?

Why is everyone hell bent on domestic properties?

What about commercial and industrial, why weren't these mentioned by the OP?

 

[stevethesparks]

Before the sale of a house is a great idea, rather than find out what a heap or crud you have bought after the sale. Prospective buyers could skip straight to the observations page, but as regards 20% every year - no way.

 

[Plonker 3]

GN3 already states any property should have a EICR on the change of occupancy already.

 

[MerlinGremlin]

Part P is a waste of time and an insult to sparks as a electrical trainee or a kitchen fitter can issue a cert, the amount of jobs I've been asked to look at due to issues and problems but been signed off. The work I have seen is so sub standard but I have to inform the local authority to come and check my work and have it signed off even though I've been sparking for 12 years.

 

[driverman]

Dazza 1981 I've not given any advice the only reason I brought it up is because a friend of mine is in insurance and he was telling me they didn't pay out on a claim because the electrical install was below standards and no test certs etc could be provided to prove they were okay! So I was asking the question what people thought about it, what might become compulsory in the very near future

That insurance loop hole has been used many times before years ago, well before all this part P was introduced. It's nothing new.

 

[gutterball]

it will be like the report that you get now. the inspector stands in the garden looks up at the roof ticks box, that's ok . looks at the new switches and sockets the home owner has fitted to freshen the place up before it's sold another tick. lots of exclusions as they can't see things.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Wondered how long it would take for you to jump on the band wagon.

A hint of a quick buck and here you are.

Thats a little unfair Tony. Your making me sound like someone that does electrical work for a living and not the charitable organisation that I am. Oh, hang on your right, naughty dirty me, I must stop charging for the work I do, especially those quick bucks… I feel soooo ashamed:laugh3:

 

[UNG]

might be a good idea in principal. hypothetically, an genuine EICR every 5 years costing , say, £250, with the insurance companies giving a £50/annum discount on seeing a copy of the report. Sparks earn money, the cost is recovered by the home owner through the reduced premium. everyone's a winner.

I'm sure you'll wake up and snap out of that dream soon insurance companies have never lived in this hypothetical ideal world discounting you talk of

We know of one case now but how many claims are refused because of a substandard electrical installation and more to the point one that causes the policy holder to claim

Ung I'm cards in with a company so it wouldn't interest me if an insurance company tried tapping me up I wouldn't entertain it, with gas you have the chance to smell it, you have carbon monoxide alarms and you can only work on it if your gas registered! With electricity you can't smell it, see it or fit alarms to warn you its present and dangerous and then the next thing you know you've been struck by the tail of the devil!

Just read my post I meant insurance companies signing up householders to an inspection scheme not yourself. With regard to the rest of your post are you trying to teach me to suck eggs everything we all do carries a risk does what you and your mate propose actually reduce the risk rather than an annual 20% EICR I suggest all electrical installations are brought up to 18th edition regs ( And before the corrections flood in I know what I have said ) because it'll be safer than what we currently have or how about households having to have all appliances fixed and portable checked every year where will all the pie in the sky ideas end. A while ago someone was banging a drum similar to yours i'd give before you waste to much energy

 

[UNG]

I understand there will be costs incurred by the homeowners or landlords but surely as sparks we should all be thinking along the line of raising standards in domestic properties, it would be hard to police and make sure all circuits tested etc if it saves lives then I'm all for it, or even if it became compulsory to have one done before you can sell your house? Or every 10 years just to check everything is okay? Some of the houses I've worked in over the years have been death traps due to people adding things on and not knowing what there doing, this could prevent someone being killed hopefully.

How can we raise standards when the government and the parasitic schemes are lowering them faster than a -----'s Knickers

Part P ring any bells?

Why is everyone hell bent on domestic properties?

What about commercial and industrial, why weren't these mentioned by the OP?

Because that is all they know and the market is saturated and new revenue streams are needed

Before the sale of a house is a great idea, rather than find out what a heap or crud you have bought after the sale. Prospective buyers could skip straight to the observations page, but as regards 20% every year - no way.

The average man in the street does not understand an EICR in most cases the issue of a cert suggests to most that the installation is ok unless it's put in very succinct terms in big letters that the installation is screwed it will not be understood

Part P is a waste of time and an insult to sparks as a electrical trainee or a kitchen fitter can issue a cert, the amount of jobs I've been asked to look at due to issues and problems but been signed off. The work I have seen is so sub standard but I have to inform the local authority to come and check my work and have it signed off even though I've been sparking for 12 years.

This problem lies in two places one with the previous government and their perceived lack of skilled labour the result is a massive increase in very semi skilled labour trained through the quick course system and then accredited as being competent and two the customer wanting the job done as cheaply as possible which results in corners being cut

 

[UNG]

Just looked on the ONS website in 2012 there were 26.4 million households in the UK if everyone had a 20% EICR each year the electrical industry would be swamped

 

[stevethesparks]

How can we raise standards when the government and the parasitic schemes are lowering them faster than a -----'s Knickers

lol....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To start with, an EIC where only 20% of circuits are tested! would not be worth the paper it is written on.
Secondly, to suggest that home owners must have electrical work done to their homes, in order for an EIC to be produced each year is ridiculous.

Perhaps suggesting that an EICR should be conducted annually might be a better idea?
However the main problem with that, is cost.

With Gas Safe/Corgi, there are a few simple tests conducted which are the same for any and all installations, irrespective of size or complexity.

The same would not apply with an electrical installation.

 

[Gavin A]

very dangerous step to start making something like this mandatory for owner occupier homes IMO - I'm firmly of the opinion that the less the government has to say about what people do in their own homes the better.

I also can't help thinking that this could well cause more problems than it solves, as the pressure for cheap EICRs would inevitably result in more chance of cables being left not tightened up / not put back in at all in the boards after a test, which is most dangerous than a system that's already been signed off as being safe on installation.

EICRs don't pick up on high resistance joints anyway, and these are the most likely cause of fires IMO.

If an insurance company wants to offer cheaper rates with a regular electrical inspection report, then that's a different matter, but in the absense of this, then my assumption would be that there's little merit in it, as the insurance industry are no slouches when it comes to picking up on things that would save them money by improving on safety.

 

[Guest77]

I think it would actually be dangerous, disconnecting circuits every year continously year after year to test them could actually weaken the circuit breaker terminals and cause a fire lol.

 

[aesmith]

I understand that a cost would come into it but can you put a price on safety?

Of course you can. Or are you saying you'd be willing to pay any price no matter how high, and no matter how small the possible safety benefit?

 

[DPG]

I think it would actually be dangerous, disconnecting circuits every year continously year after year to test them could actually weaken the circuit breaker terminals and cause a fire lol.

And if socket outlets are unscrewed and then refitted there will be more metal-fatigue failures of the twin and earth. Specially if someone has nicked into the copper when it was stripped. Daz

 

[Spoon]

I understand that a cost would come into it but can you put a price on safety?

I never trust anyone who comes out with comments like this...

 

[gazj82]

As for the MOT analogy, a car weighs a ton travels 40 mph through town centre meters away from pedestrians. Your house doesn't create anywhere near the amount of hazards that your car does.

 

[Guest77]

And if socket outlets are unscrewed and then refitted there will be more metal-fatigue failures of the twin and earth. Specially if someone has nicked into the copper when it was stripped. Daz

I have actually disconnected sockets in houses to conduct tests in the past when a fault has been on a ring, I split the ring to find which half the fault was on, when I tried to reconnect the socket after finding the fault the screws wouldn't tighten and I had to fit a new socket, so your point is not only valid it has been proven, good point Daz

 

[Guest77]

I watched the guy doing a gas safe test on my flat yesterday. I know he didn’t cut corners, if fact he was very conscientious.
It took less than an hour, OK there’s only two appliances but he didn’t stint on what he did.


I’m due to have an EICR later this year. It could get interesting. I wonder how long that will take with me watching him to make sure he does what he’s paid to do?

:smilielol5:an electricians nightmare, I wouldn't want to carry out and EICR on your property with you watching, I would be so nervous I wouldn't be able to do the job lol

 

[Knobhead]

I watched the guy doing a gas safe test on my flat yesterday. I know he didn’t cut corners, if fact he was very conscientious.
It took less than an hour, OK there’s only two appliances but he didn’t stint on what he did.


I’m due to have an EICR later this year. It could get interesting. I wonder how long that will take with me watching him to make sure he does what he’s paid to do?

If he tries to put any visible stickers on the CU he’ll be on hospital food for a while.

 

[Spoon]

Are you a time traveller MDJ? How did you reply to Tony's post before he posted it....

 

[Knobhead]

Sorry, that was me mucking about :lipsrsealed2: