control sequence

[phazed out]

I know control panel circuit diagrams/design has to be constructed to all relevant regulation and laws applicable to the country of use,
Is it possible for some of the member her to post basic control circuit using just relay/timer hardwired circuit to perform basic control function.
So other member can replay with there version of how it operates.
Attached is an example

 

[Knobhead]

I can't understand what you want? That drawing is perfect for plant use.

Do you want it wire by wire, if so give me time and I'll do one. I'm going for my evening nap now.

 

[phazed out]

No Tony as some of the member here do not have a lot of experience of control circuit.
They could write how they think it work and after a few explanation an answer would be given.
Thus gaining some insight into simple control diagrams

 

[Knobhead]

Who are you, an examiner?

Or is this a covert way of getting your homework done?

BTW the drawing would be laughed out of any maintenance shop!

 

[snowhead]

Ah the luxury of having acurate drawings for control panels.

In fact, having any drawing sometimes.

 

[phazed out]

Not doing any homework just trying to help people gain the basics of control.

No need for a detail explanation some where along the lines.

What happens when the start button is operated, power is applied to relay -K1 Through off delay contact and so on

 

[snowhead]

Question: Provide a variety of drawings showing various operations and give an explanation of the workings.

Answer; Seek out a forum.

 

[phazed out]

Please post some examples of good layout.

I can't understand what you want? That drawing is perfect for plant use.

BTW the drawing would be laughed out of any maintenance shop!

 

[silva.foxx]

How clever... you have sort of answered this post >>> http://www.electriciansforums.net/c...actor-needs-have-time-delayed-off-switch.html

@phazed out... as you are relatively new to this site... I think you have 'steamed in' and gave a very misleading impression. The idea of getting users acquainted with schematics, building a task to develop understanding of control circuits and starting a conversation on something fundamental that a lot of us, to this section, deal with daily what causes us frustration with our colleagues and apprentices, is a nice idea.

If you had gently introduced yourself, clearly explained your idea (I thought it was typed in broken english) and suggested it as a task... I'm certain you'd have been received better.

 

[Knobhead]

Ah the luxury of having acurate drawings for control panels.

In fact, having any drawing sometimes.

HeHe, drawings? What are they? Usually an oil soaked pulp congealing in the bottom of a panel.

I will say I don’t like modern drawing methods having been brought up with A0 or A1 drawings. Left to right is correct to me (also ties in with PLC drawings). A4 top to bottom with numerous cross references to drawing --- drives me mad!

I don’t think this will come though very well

View attachment 13324

 

[theroadblock]

HeHe, drawings? What are they? Usually an oil soaked pulp congealing in the bottom of a panel.

I will say I don’t like modern drawing methods having been brought up with A0 or A1 drawings. Left to right is correct to me (also ties in with PLC drawings). A4 top to bottom with numerous cross references to drawing --- drives me mad!

I don’t think this will come though very well

View attachment 13324

haha, o dear you wouldnt like my work then matey, all modern method of crossrefrencing ect, i get on with it lovely personally! though i have only recently touched on designing my own control circuits im loving it! i will post a copy of my most recent design when it is complete for your scrutony tony

 

[alarm man]

No Tony as some of the member here do not have a lot of experience of control circuit.
They could write how they think it work and after a few explanation an answer would be given.
Thus gaining some insight into simple control diagrams

i dont get your post,you say you want to help people understand basic control circuits,but you ask others to do it for you,and when one of the members who does know his stuff offers to do it wire for wire in his own time you say no,because you want step by step instructions for you to understand..

 

[Knobhead]

haha, o dear you wouldnt like my work then matey, all modern method of crossrefrencing ect, i get on with it lovely personally! though i have only recently touched on designing my own control circuits im loving it! i will post a copy of my most recent design when it is complete for your scrutony tony

I’m not an arbiter of what’s right or wrong. It’s just that over the years I’ve seen changes in drawing systems, some good and some bad.
One of the daftest was all drawings would be put on computer, great I’m out on the plant and the computer was ¼ mile away in the control room. That didn’t last long!

At the end of the day an A0 plotter costs a small fortune, whereas an A4 printer you will get change out of £60 at the corner shop.

Post some of the drawings you’ve done. Even though we all use the same building blocks, we all put them together differently.

 

[stef]

I think I know what you want: which wire goes to which terminal point on the contactors? Not an electrical drawing, more like a physical, one which shows the contactors as blocks with say 10 terminals as it would be seen inside the panel?This is ok for rebuuilding a new panel but for faultfinding purposes the ladder diagram is more useful. The physical diagram doesn't show you what each terminal point actually does, in fact I find such diagrams confusing esp when each wire is drawn in the same color.

 

[telectrix]

what confuses me with these ladder diagrams is getting the beermats in the correct order, like a mosaic. LOL.

 

[theroadblock]

I’m not an arbiter of what’s right or wrong. It’s just that over the years I’ve seen changes in drawing systems, some good and some bad.
One of the daftest was all drawings would be put on computer, great I’m out on the plant and the computer was ¼ mile away in the control room. That didn’t last long!

At the end of the day an A0 plotter costs a small fortune, whereas an A4 printer you will get change out of £60 at the corner shop.

Post some of the drawings you’ve done. Even though we all use the same building blocks, we all put them together differently.

i think id cry if i had to access all our drawings from the computer in our workshop... and on the matter of putting them together differently youd be amazed at my place, it seems the corrugating industry mackle together a corrugator machine from 20+ manufacturers, everyone does it differently, keeps you on your toes though :smilewinkgrin:.

 

[sbrown2]

So is the example some sort of safety relay circuit? But you are showing what is in the safety relay. Please explain

 

[phazed out]

My post was not very well written my aim was to have the experienced members of this forum to post simple control diagrams then let those who want to explain there operating sequence do so. Then at a certain date revel the answer.

If this post is of no use, please close it up.

 

[theroadblock]

I wouldnt say to close it totally mate, the problem initially was the confusion caused by your somewhat broken english Original post lol, now we at least now understand what you were wanting to achieve i see no reason why we couldnt discuss posted control circuits and their functions, sounds quite fun really lol

 

[mechelec]

read this and all will become clear (maybe)

Eaton - Wiring Manual

 

[vaughant]

I get what your trying to do,I started a similar thread on reading diagrams a few months back which I promised to update but haven't,a bit of basic reading for those unfamiliar with how control diagrams work.That in itself is a bit of a juxtapose as there's so many different styles of diagram it can't readily be put into one particular style or even what's right or wrong.For example,the German diagrams aren't hot on cable numbering,more reliant on terminal numbers and locations within panels which I cut my teeth on,once you get your head round the system it makes for perfect sense and I find easy fault finding.British diagrams tend to be a3 ladder style with as much info on the one page as possible ie all the switching conditions to get the relay on in one row,often snaking around the page so you can see clearly what's needed for what.these tend to use cable numbers rather than terminal destinations and very rarely in my experience tell you what panel the items are in.Italian are a mix of both as are American,we've got one Norwegian diagram to which I have absolutely no understanding of,the system seems completely ridiculous to me but I do need to learn it as if I'm too go offshore their idiotic ideas maybe out there as well.As for your first diagram it's a basic contactor system,to me the emergency stop is wrong,it should be before the termination point straight after the fuse so it cuts everything as the only protection you now have for k2 is the fact you need k1 in,as there's a n/o contact on k1 required to energise k2,I've seen contacts burn and weld together for all sorts of reasons and granted this can happen on an e stop but you should test your e stops each shift,only takes a second,it's in likely you'll test the contacts every shift.Can't see an e stop reset either which should be mandatory as far as Iconcerned,otherwise all that could start straight back up again.As for wire numbers,particularly simple circuits,we were taught that 1 is your main power in and 2 your return so looking at your diagram the top 24v line is 1,the bottom return is 2,so 1 into fuse,3 out of fuse,3 into e stop,4 out of e stop,you don't use 2 again.Any modifications should go 1 A etc,you never alter the original wiring if possible plus update the diagram accordingly and make a back up copy.