Do I need to test an old wiring installation?

[KingKenny]

Hello again everyone - I've been asked to assess a small old house pending the possible (ok, probable) replacement of the old CCU.

I've attached a composite picture of the two boards currently in place at the site. The new Wylex to the right was installed about 8 years ago and has circuits for Heating (Dimplex storage heaters), smoke alarms and heat alarms and so on.

The older CCU is a MEM (I think) with 6 ways, 2 5A (only one used) and 4 15A (only 2 used). No RCD or ELCB. It has an (I think) 6mm-ish unsheahed earth conductor and twin neutral and live tails coming into the unit from the meter.

I've climbed up into the draughty old loft and traced all the cables and have confirmed there is a single lighting circuit and three radial circuits to socket outlets in three different rooms.

The wiring is sponsored by luck it seems - The lighting circuit and two of the radial circuits are all routed through "custom made" JB's smothered in insulating tape. None of the lighting circuits have earth conductors, 1 of the radial circuits has an earth connection at one outlet, but not at another. 1 of the others has an earth connection, the other does not. In short, it's a mess.

My question is - How do I go about testing this installation (or do I even NEED to - should I just recommend the client gets an isolating switch/meter fitted and get the house rewired asap?).

View attachment 18668

 

[ayjay]

attachments no good

 

[telectrix]

link won't work. from description.go for a rewire. JBs covered in tape= recipe for disaster. rewire the lot.

 

[Andy78]

I would quote them for a rewire.
As an option, I would also quote them for a DB swap with all the associated remedial work needed to satisfy you and your test sheets. I would point out the extent of this work and suggest that by the time it's all done they might as well be rewiring (by the sounds of things). Stress all the positive benefits a rewire would bring, and do some testing beforehand if they go for the cheap(ish) option.

 

[Kate]

Yes test before!!! When I'm asked to change DB I always stipulate that a preliminary test needs doing first, I usually have to quote and state this in the quotation along with saying that any faults found would incur extra costs.

 

[PEM]

I always test before. At least then your certification justifies what you say. Plus you have a starting point.

 

[KingKenny]

Thanks, as always, for everyone's replies - it's much appreciated.
I'll try and post the photo again - You'll just about see the unsheathed earth conductor to the old box behind the one to the new wylex.

In regard to testing - my question is what exactly I CAN test and record?

Ze, PFC, Continuity (between line conductors) and Insulation Resistance (live only, mostly), Polarity... - sure, I can get these. I can get and R1+R2 value from one of the radial circuits, but not from the lighting circuit.

I guess I'm being put off by the lack of obvious consistent earthing in the installation.... but now that I've listed what I CAN do (!), I guess there's quite a bit ...

Are the posters basically saying ... 'Look, test, record the results and basically use it as pretty clear evidence to suggest a rewire'?

KK

 

[chrish_1977]

As previous have said, you may want to test first , then you will have an idea what your dealing with, nothing worse than agreeing a price to do a board change then come back with loads if extras. You should test what you can and speak to the customer about all problems that arise

 

[lauriehurman]

TAKE THE SMOKE ALARMS OFF THE ECONOMY 7!

Sorry to shout but that's a 2 rate meter and you're saying that the smoke detectors are on the board with the storage heaters.

That's the most important issue at the moment.
Laurie

 

[Spoon]

Have to agree with Chrish. The customers don't understand why extra costs should be added after your quote. They will most probably think that you are trying to rip them off. If you test first then you know what you are letting yourself in for and you can quote accordingly.

 

[ED17]

I quoted a similar job a couple of months ago, the installation was a mess and the remedial work was almost as much a a rewire. Never heard back but found out that the woman had a "spark" change the consumer unit for £175 cash!

We can't win.

 

[KingKenny]

TAKE THE SMOKE ALARMS OFF THE ECONOMY 7!

Sorry to shout but that's a 2 rate meter and you're saying that the smoke detectors are on the board with the storage heaters.

That's the most important issue at the moment.
Laurie

Laurie - Thanks for this - I'll double check this for sure - I 'think' the client has only a single rate meter, not 2 (i.e. not economy 7 or 10), etc.. but I'll have a look at this, yes.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Always test before a cu change, i'm in the middle of an eicr at my mrs' old mans place and its a nightmare, the house is huge, lighting partly earthed by other circuits, class 1 brass fittings/switches everywhere, borrowed neutrals on 3 circuits. He said yesterday " how long do you think it will take to sort as i only wanted a new fusebox" , the place needs rewiring in my view but i don't think he'll go for that, it would have looked very bad if i'd quoted to change the cu's and then found all this after,bloody house stinks of dog **** too

 

[telectrix]

good luck with that one. relatives always expect it for nowt or a few quid beer money.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

link won't work. from description.go for a rewire. JBs covered in tape= recipe for disaster. rewire the lot.

yep....its all about what you cant see/verify as well....
sometimes its better to go for new throughout.....sometimes...

 

[Rampantchilli]

Test everything, make a note of every fault or issue.
then give them 2 quotes, if you are realistic with your prices for the remedial work, you'll find the rewire comes cheaper, with the benefit of extra sockets and switches.
as said before your certificates will back up any quotes

 

[KingKenny]

Thanks everyone - I'm taking my Kewtech for a run out on the house next Monday. one strange,curious thing I found is that the walls are cast concrete, then external walls there is galvanised steel floor to ceiling, then wood cladding (tongue and groove). internal walls are plastered. my spidey senses are worried about the largely inaccessible steel walls though in terms of earthing/bonding ......

 

[KingKenny]

good luck with that one. relatives always expect it for nowt or a few quid beer money.

not only relatives. did a day's work for a retired, well off doctor a few weeks ago. it was an easy job and i know his son, so charged him £30, most of which was materials. he looked at me as if I'd shot his lancaster out of the sky.

 

[monkeyelectric]

good luck with that one. relatives always expect it for nowt or a few quid beer money.

I got that sorted from the start! I give him a good price of £30 p/hour and just do whatever, i can't work for free he doesn't know thats what i normally charge anyway, i should be on danger money in that place anyway!

 

[Outspoken]

Ah the dreaded board upgrade, that's why I don't do domestic systems, but have to agree with many of the comments though..

1: Quote to Test and Inspect the installation prior to undertaking any work, explain that if you simply upgrade the board this does not automatically make the installation safe, only safer, but it could introduce problems that are them expensive to solve, such as faults causing nuisance tripping than BS3036 or other types of fuses would ignore.

2: Quote for the rewire and include the costs of the CU upgrade (Explain this included the costs of a post installation test and certification anyway). I would sweeten the pot with a couple of smoke detectors and a heat detector (kitchen) thrown in free (if gas in kitchen consider a combined heat/CO2 detector)

3: Quote to only do the board, but state that you would not be prepared to undertake the works without testing it first because you are legally responsible and you could not in all conscience undertake any work you consider to be substandard.

Remember to explain the merits of rewiring the house, this does make the home safer, it may decrease their home insurance policy and it also means it will not be necessary for about 20-25 years so actually will help the sale of the house should they choose to sell at any point.