EICR what code for inaccessible socket

[Adelaide]

So if cables below 2.4m need to be covered then doesn't that cause issues with most sheds in the uk?

Anyone know what reg states that cables below 2.4m need protection Eg plastic trunking.?

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Anyone know what reg states that cables below 2.4m need protection Eg plastic trunking.?

There isn’t one in BS7671.
[automerge]1601146952[/automerge]
Unless they are single insulated cables, but these need to be in conduit or trunking above 2.4m aswell ?

 

[Julie.]

Anyone know what reg states that cables below 2.4m need protection Eg plastic trunking.?

Nope, there isn't a specific regulation, hence why we are struggling to understand the logic of such an observation

There is a regulation around 522.6.xx regarding the need for impact protection on all cables, but that is for environments such as industrial (classed as ag2 or ag3) and so on, it does not apply to domestic which is ag1.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Anyone know what reg states that cables below 2.4m need protection Eg plastic trunking.?

I can confidently say there is no such regulation in BS7671.

 

[Adelaide]

I can confidently say there is no such regulation in BS7671.

Thank you everyone for your comments. I feel confident now in asking my electrician to reconsider his C2 grading for the shower cable in the airing cupboard. Also anyone know any reg that says you can't have a washing machine plugged into a wall socket under kitchen worktop? It may not be ideal location but what reg says it's dangerous or illegal??

 

[Julie.]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I feel confident now in asking my electrician to reconsider his C2 grading for the shower cable in the airing cupboard. Also anyone know any reg that says you can't have a washing machine plugged into a wall socket under kitchen worktop? It may not be ideal location but what reg says it's dangerous or illegal??

Again there isn't anything specific in this regard.

In fact a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.

I haven't looked, but I assume you are in England, in which case the English building regulations apply, these specifically provide guidance, notably that with appliances under worktops that the plug/socket outlet should be accessible when the appliance is moved out; and integrated appliances should be connected via a socket outlet, fused connection unit, or suitable switch readily accessible without removing the integrated appliance.

However these are just guidance and good practice not absolute requirements so should not indicate any codeable observation, I would always include them, but not c3 and certainly not c2

 

[westward10]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I feel confident now in asking my electrician to reconsider his C2 grading for the shower cable in the airing cupboard. Also anyone know any reg that says you can't have a washing machine plugged into a wall socket under kitchen worktop? It may not be ideal location but what reg says it's dangerous or illegal??

You need to be asking your electrician what Regulations are being deviated from.

 

[Adelaide]

Again there isn't anything specific in this regard.

In fact a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.

I haven't looked, but I assume you are in England, in which case the English building regulations apply, these specifically provide guidance, notably that with appliances under worktops that the plug/socket outlet should be accessible when the appliance is moved out; and integrated appliances should be connected via a socket outlet, fused connection unit, or suitable switch readily accessible without removing the integrated appliance.

However these are just guidance and good practice not absolute requirements.

Yes I'm in England, and yes socket is accessible when appliance is moved out. So no way can socket be C2.

Again there isn't anything specific in this regard.

In fact a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.

I haven't looked, but I assume you are in England, in which case the English building regulations apply, these specifically provide guidance, notably that with appliances under worktops that the plug/socket outlet should be accessible when the appliance is moved out; and integrated appliances should be connected via a socket outlet, fused connection unit, or suitable switch readily accessible without removing the integrated appliance.

However these are just guidance and good practice not absolute requirements.

Yes I'm in England and yes the socket is accessible if the appliance is moved. So no way can this socket be C2.

 

[Dartlec]

It's not usually as simple as a reg that says one thing or another is dangerous or illegal - but briefly, there are 4 types of isolation/switching in the regs, but a plug and socket arrangement is allowed for all of them but emergency switching. (though ideally not behind the appliance of course).

From a quick read, I don't think the regs on emergency switching would apply to a washing machine in a domestic installation, as it's more concerned with the electrical risks than the risk of water flooding the place - and emergency isolation is available at the fusebox.

Building regulations may be a separate issue, but they are not what an EICR is covering.

So while it's not ideal, I'm not of the opinion that it is "potentially dangerous", a C2. That has to be a higher standard than just 'bad practise'.

Opinions can vary of course, but it may be worth asking him to back up his issue with reference to a regulation or available guidance.

 

[Adelaide]

Again there isn't anything specific in this regard.

In fact a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.

I haven't looked, but I assume you are in England, in which case the English building regulations apply, these specifically provide guidance, notably that with appliances under worktops that the plug/socket outlet should be accessible when the appliance is moved out; and integrated appliances should be connected via a socket outlet, fused connection unit, or suitable switch readily accessible without removing the integrated appliance.

However these are just guidance and good practice not absolute requirements.

Yes I'm in England, and yes socket is accessible when appliance is moved out. So no way can socket be C2.

You need to be asking your electrician what Regulations are being deviated from.

I have emailed the electrician to reconsider his C2 grading. I'll let you know if I get a reply.

 

[westward10]

You need to ask him what Regulations are being breached.

 

[Grant1987]

I was saying we should have a description in plain English and the relevant reg number.

What about plain welsh and regs number? Lol

 

[Julie.]

What about plain welsh and regs number? Lol

There's no such thing as plain Welsh!

 

[Adelaide]

There's no such thing as plain Welsh!

Hi Julie. Can you tell me what qualifications someone needs to legally do eicr. ?

 

[Julie.]

Hi Julie. Can you tell me what qualifications someone needs to legally do eicr. ?

None!

The requirement - depends on your region or purpose is basically that you are competent.

If it's for rental properties then it's worded slightly different than for general EICR (Which by the way is the name of the report - not the actual inspection/process which is actually a periodic inspection and test - although everyone uses the terms interchangeably).

In this case, it uses the terms qualified and competent although they aren't really defined.

In practice most people doing these tend to be part of a competent person scheme which has additional rules, however most of these are really aimed at initial work etc - basically the general installation work an electrician will do day to day.

So in practice an electrician will do their initial training, learn things like the building and wiring regulations, have experience of installation, and have their installation work checked, show they have insurance and so on.

Some people have limited qualifications (Domestic installer for example) - in which case their scheme won't usually cover them for other work like periodic inspections. Others may be fully covered as they did a full apprenticeship, but unfortunately may not have the full depth of experience needed due to being fairly recently qualified.

It isn't a great situation in my opinion, you could have someone with fantastic experience and knowledge of the regs - basically they would do a fantastic and truthful job, has insurance etc, but don't look too good on paper - for instance not in a scheme; and someone else who is in a scheme, but has limited experience, perhaps only knowing what is correct now, with no idea of previous standard or work practices, and therefore "overreacts" throwing C1's and C2's around like confetti.

Which one would people go for - the likelihood is the second one as general guidance is to use someone on the competent persons scheme.

Unfortunately I feel a few unscrupulous ones are seeing it all as an opportunity to get easy work for which they often overcharge as well.

 

[Zerax]

From my experience... some of the best EICRs that I've seen have been from guys that I know are not members of a scam. And vice versa... some of the worst from guys that are fully apprenticed, have been in the industry for years and AC scam members etc.

So I think alot of it boils down to the individual... if you're conscientious about your work, take pride in producing something that you're proud to put your name to etc., everything else is secondary.

It happens in other industries too... some the the best house surveys I've seen have been from non-chartered surveyors... some of the worst from one of the 'big boy' outfits.

And let's not forget British Gas... not a great reputation... but they should be the best !!

 

[Robbieross]

Or mark it down as an operational limitation. Sometimes we find furniture that is way to heavy and/or expensive to move. I dont think you can code a socket inaccessible in this circumstance as a C2 (or any code)

Yes I have a massive piano - organ totally unmovable and due an electrical inspection and was worried and looked for an answer and glad I found it here. I imagine I won't get an answer as thread too old but can you mdo an inspection and leave out a couple of sockets? One in each room that are basically inaccessible due to another massive filing cabinet (full!)

 

[SJD]

Yes I have a massive piano - organ totally unmovable and due an electrical inspection and was worried and looked for an answer and glad I found it here. I imagine I won't get an answer as thread too old but can you mdo an inspection and leave out a couple of sockets? One in each room that are basically inaccessible due to another massive filing cabinet (full!)

Yes, there are often inaccessible sockets such as behind difficult-to-move furniture. If in use e.g. with an extension lead, I can maybe test at the end of that extension lead. Otherwise I put them down as operational limitations, e.g. "Socket behind large piano inaccessbile and not tested".

It only becomes a problem if there is a fault with the circuit (e.g. lack of ring continuity), and (for the remedial work) it looks like the fault could be at this socket. That has happened to me once or twice.

 

[mainline]

So if cables below 2.4m need to be covered then doesn't that cause issues with most sheds in the uk?

If there were such a reg for cables below 2.4mtrs wouldn't that make any flex cable hanging from a socket non-compliant or would it be argued that it's not fixed wiring, whichever way it's a nonsense.

 

[timhoward]

If there were such a reg for cables below 2.4mtrs wouldn't that make any flex cable hanging from a socket non-compliant or would it be argued that it's not fixed wiring, whichever way it's a nonsense.

Ooooh - welcome to arms - see you for a virtual pint later ;-)