ELECSA Certification Scheme Elecsa not accepted ????

[nickblake]

Approved for periodic inspections of dwelings , already got my Part P with them

 

[IQ Electrical]

But what are the actual benefits that you received for your PIR fee?

 

[Graeme Harrold]

The fee alows you to use ELECSA headed forms. Yes they are taking money from you, but as said above, ELECSA cover you for 3 years, so their fee is quite low. Playing devils advocate, but is this not quality control, and if sold to your customers correctly should be able to boost your credibility..........Flack jacket on

 

[IQ Electrical]

It is, you can take off the flack jacket!
Sounds like a much better setup than the NICEIC

 

[Guest123]

IMO if you intend doing PIR's and works other than domestic etc, then you're better off either going ECA, NIC AC or even full scope Napit.

One fee for everything, job done.

 

[nickblake]

But what are the actual benefits that you received for your PIR fee?

In reality what are the benifits with any of them just you can use their logo , ive been with elecsa since i started on my own 3 years ago assesment in December , im not worried about it , as i know the guys are there to help you out yes maybe i may not answer the some of the questions correctly , they are there to help you out , and the real benifit is if i need technical advice its there the technical guys are 2nd to none

 

[IQ Electrical]

IMO if you intend doing PIR's and works other than domestic etc, then you're better off either going ECA, NIC AC or even full scope Napit.

One fee for everything, job done.

I think you're probably right.

 

[Andyfm]

Full scope NAPIT is OK for PIRs as long as you`ve got indemnity insurance

 

[Johno]

I am with elecsa, and do not pay the extra for PIR guidance (or whatever it is that the fee is for), I use the elecsa headed PIR forms though and have been told this is ok by elecsa assessor.

 

[swparksey]

I assume that you could use say the Approved Domestic Installer or Approved Contractor logo on you PIR form if say you are with NICEIC, after all you are one of these what could they possibly do about it? Maybe they will intoriduce another one, somthing like Approved Periodic Inspector?

It really gets up my nose,

And just found this on the NICEIC website

Please see our Virtual PIR Course details as domestic installers who successfully complete this course will gain automatic extension to do domestic PIR work.

Hummm more about sales now than safety

 

[IQ Electrical]

That's the link I posted earlier, almost a grand for a computer based test!!!
The world's gone mad!

 

[ringer]

For those of you aghast at the cost of the NIC Virtual PIR course, to be fair, that is quite innovative and technically not easy to put together. Don't think because it is computer based it is equivalent to the Gola exams used by C&G, this appears to be much more sophisticated. Although it is a lot of money, compared with a lot of traditionally taught courses, it is probably quite good value for money. And if you get to keep the discs/program after completing the course, even better value. The main problem with it will be the transition from a virtual environment on the computer to a real life environment in a property. It is no real substitute for several years experience, but in these days where experience for newcomers is increasingly hard to access, in my opinion this is a step in the right direction. About the only positive thing I can say about the NIC.

 

[Amp David]

I may need educating here also, but do PIR's come under the scope of the Elecsa part p scheme??? for instance with the NIC they are a bolt on to DI status.

What I mean is are they included in your enrolment or are they an optional extra??? Or do you have to join Elecsa's big brother the ECA???

Sadly it is as IQ said, anyone can ask for whatever scheme memebership they want

Its also an extra with Elecsa. They ask when you apply and charge you there fee for the Periodic Inspection Reporting.

 

[Gravid]

I thought once you had your 2391 your were qualified enough to carry out a PIR is this right?
I don't understand what this extra fee is for, surely you either have your 2391 or you don't.
Here's what Elecsa say on their website ELECSA - Periodics

 

[IQ Electrical]

The 2391 and some experience should be enough to prove competency and of course proving competency is all that is needed to carry out a Periodic Inspection.

The scheme providers that charge a fee are saying 'yes, you can carry out a Periodic Inspection but to do it under the jurasdiction of our scheme will cost you £---'

So basically, you pay to say "this is a PIR for which I am anually/tri-anually assessed by my scheme provider, giving you the customer a higher chance of receiving a complete, genuine report".

It's up to you to decide on the value of being able to make the above statement!

 

[nickblake]

IN Reality Part P is the same we have to regester to carry out our jobs goes to the council who never inspect our work they send out a certificate and thats it in these crunch times i feel its a waste whats another piece of paper the certificate should be enough this country is full of male cow excriment . ,what we need is the green card as austrailia then thats it only qualified guys can do the work its simple as that

 

[oldtimer]

Had a situation like this here in Edinburgh I was called by a lady who was renting out her flat she asked me if I was Part P registered or registered with the likes of NICEIC when I explained no she said well I cannot use you then I highlighted to her that Part P does not exist in Scotland plus although there is a Certification scheme it is not compulsory I also said that I got this verified by Select (grudgingly) and that because of this Edinburgh District Council will accept a colour photocopy of your grade card front & back plus a copy of your testers calibration certificate.
I also had the same problem when Screwfix was just about to open Electrofix in Scotland they informed me that I could not be a memember because I was not registered with NICEIC or Part P yet again I explained and this time their manager phoned me 2 days later when I informed him that legally I did not have to be registered and that Part P did not and will never come into Scotland I also informed him that Screwfix could be sued for descrimination as again it was not compulsery to be registered also i tiold him it was illegal to force English law in Scotland. Off he went and 2 hours later called back to confirm all that I had said plus he said bring your Grade card along and we will register you with Electrofix.

So whats the problem ? well yes it is good to be registered but these schemes have become money making machines for the people who want us to go down this road but here is the sticking point because these schemes are not compulsery in affect these people are taking a risk saying it is as in my view I could sue them for running a monopoly plus loss off earnings as they have no authority to do so. Hence why a district council has to accept credentials from qualified people who can prove they are not a cowboy but in fact a "Law abiding citizen" trying to make an honest crust.

Let me leave you with this many years ago I started an burglar alarm business giving good service and working to BS4737 at the time the same thing happened the public were brainwashed into he is not registered and he cannot get registered because he needs 4 employees in his company.So I had to sit back and watch a guy who "fell" into alarms employed his 2 sons (not qualified)and his daughter (this makes 4) mop up a pile of work because he was registered and was no way doing work to the standards and 25 years later I feel that I am watching a old video because yet again the electrical industry has picked up on this and it makes good money thank you very much. I hope someone from these registration companies reads this because they are sailing close to the wind when they push the you have to be registered because the law will not tolerate a monopoly and funny enough European law will not allow and individual to be descriminated like this dont get me wrong I am not having a rant for the sake of it but I am saying if these schemes are to work they need to be done right or just like the alarm industry big registered companies will be allowed to cut corners and the problem is people who are meant to police it will do nothing because the abuse has went on to long and they will look negligent so they will have to keep up appearances and then all trust in the system is lost and some bright spark (excuse the pun) will move for a improved registration system to be rolled out.

Please stop me if you have heard this all before

 

[UNG]

I have had a go at a number of insurance companies over the years insisting on NACOSS (or the other different names it's used) I have found if you stand up to them and argue your corner they tend to back down especially when you put to them the restrictive and unfair practices they employing to keep your business out of fair and competive work and forcing the customer to pay a premium price for the work. I was SSAIB and it took alot at times to be accepted by insurance companies but in most cases the customer backed me up as they did not want to be dictated to as to their choice of supplier

The same is true of the insurance companies requiring NICEIC PIR's there is a belief only an NICEIC company can issue a PIR because they have exclusive rights to the certificates and this is a comment made during a recent conversation with an insurance company when challenged over their request for an NICEIC PIR. The insurance person sounded a bit stunned when I pointed out they were published in BS7671 and were freely available and also available from the NICEIC for non approved contractors

Anyone who tries to force one approval body on me is asked to explain their restrictive practice I would suggest every one should do the same until these people get the message it is even better when the customer also asks the same question. This practice could be classed as discrimination and we know what that means in our all inclusive society

 

[oldtimer]

Good point UNG as I say I have no problem with policing bodies if it is done right but then again I tend to apply my own standards on to them when the whole sytem is designed to be abused at that level and I feel this covers all areas. I recently broke down and the AA took me to Nationwide where it cost me a packet only to find my car was still under warranty when I called the AA they got a bit defensive so I kept probing until the AAs legal department admitted that they got paid a fee from Nationwide not for dropping work off but for Nationwide being allowed to use their signage. So I have voted with my feet on the AA.

Also with regards to alarms I charge a one of fee to service an alarm system and I always explain to the customer remember check your insurance details because if you get a discount for having an alarm you have to have a maintenance contract with a registered company and if you pop out next door for a cup of tea and do not set your alarm then your insurance is null and void "surely not said the customer" and yes they checked and yes I was correct then they asked how much discount do they get for having a maintenance contract and the reply was £19 Well said the customer I want to pay the £19 and get rid of my
£175 a year maintenance contract because I do not want to go on holiday to find my son or daughter forgot to set the alarm and we get broken into. I have also had customers comment on the fact that I actualy service the alarm handing them 2 sheets of info where the alarm company turned up (after they sat in all day) set the alarm off and left without leaving any documentation

 

[IQ Electrical]

then they asked how much discount do they get for having a maintenance contract and the reply was £19 Well said the customer I want to pay the £19 and get rid of my £175 a year maintenance contract

Out of interest, what does a client receive for a £175.00 a year maintenance contract?