First EICR help needed!

[richardg]

Hi I have just finished the new 2394 course and thought I would perform a EICR on a friends house, little did I know what a state the installation is in. Any help or recommendations would be great as I have a lot to learn.The main consumer unit is around 20 years old with a mixture of 3871, 60898 rcd /rcbo and 4293 breakers. The first surprise was the missing main protective bonding conductors to the Gas and Water services would this rate a C2?Both bathrooms had mains voltage downlights in zone 1 with no IP rating and no RCD protection would this still rate a C2 as potentially dangerous?There was no equilpotential bonding anywhere in the property eg bathrooms/kitchen. C3?The downstairs ring main has no rcd protection for cables buried less than 50mm. C3The installation in general was very poor with connections made at lighting plates with chocblocks and Sellotape, 5-6 mm of bare conductors showing and Cpc's of kitchen ring main wired into the rear metal backbox instead of the socket terminals. (surprisingly Zs value ok)The list was exhausting what a way to learn!As a seasoned bunch of electricians would you recommend the consumer unit be updated to 17th?Replace light fittings with suitable elv IP rated downlights?Run main earth bonding conductors to gas and water services?I think my neighbour is going to be shocked when I list the observations, as they believe the installation is safe, it looks as if they have been done over by cowboys every time they have had some work done.Again thank you in advance for your combined wisdom.

 

[trev]

As a learning experience, since it's your first one list the faults and the codes you would give them and we can tell you if you're right. If you're wrong you'll be told why mate

 

[HandySparks]

Not too much there I'd disagree with. Good start! And a good plan to get some real-world experience before asking an unsuspecting customer to pay for an EICR.

The ESC has a good document on their website about coding faults on an EICR. Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council Guide No.4.

Minor point, if you list each fault on a seperate line next time, it makes it easier to read and respond to.

 

[Brightspark2]

I'd agree with your code's, the Zs value at sockets would off been ok as it was probably picking the earth up through the socket front screws which provide the link from the socket front to the back box where the cpcs are.

Looks like you have the right plan for remedial works too, instead of replacing the DB it could work out cheaper to install RCBO's if there are some already installed.

 

[richardg]

Not too much there I'd disagree with. Good start! And a good plan to get some real-world experience before asking an unsuspecting customer to pay for an EICR.

The ESC has a good document on their website about coding faults on an EICR. Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council Guide No.4.

Minor point, if you list each fault on a seperate line next time, it makes it easier to read and respond to.

Thanks I will list out the observations and the codes.
1. Supply meter tails worn and undersized C2
2 Meter tail consumer worn and undersized. C2
3 No main earth bonding to gas and water services. C2
4 No equilpotential bonding in bathrooms and kitchen C2
5 Main earth conductor undersized. C3
6 Downstairs bathroom downlights 230v in zone1 no rcd protection C2
7 Downstairs bathroom exposed conductors in roof void C3
8 Kitchen ring main sockets incorrectly wired C2
9 Damaged socket faceplate kitchen ring main C1
10 Side annex sockets overloaded C2
11 Earth labels missing C3
12 No quarterly rcd test notice C3
13 No mixed colour cable notice missing C3
14 Consumer unit missing blanking plate C1
15 Rear bedroom lighting point unsafe wiring C2
16 Dinning room lighting point unsafe wiring C2 (Sellotape connections)
17Upstairs bathroom downlights 230v in zone 1 no IP rating no RCD protection C2
18 light fitting in downstairs cuboard unsafe live parts visible C1
19 down stairs sockets and light fittings showing exposed conductors from terminals C2
20Connections of live conductors not enclosed 1st 2nd light fittingsC2
21 conductors in lighting circuits not identified C3
22 No RCD protection for socket circuits 7 8C2
23 No additional protection fir conductors buried in walls less than 50mm c2

The house took around 4 hours to survey and due to the condition I think I will recommend further testing of the ring continuity and insulation resistance of all circuits due to sloppy work from previous installers.
again thanks for your help.
x

 

[telectrix]

those codes you've suggested look pretty good to me. one point....... if it's an oldish house, the bathroom ceiling may be higher than 2.25m, in which case the lights are outside zones, so no code for the non-IP rated fittings. agree with the C2 for no RCD though.

 

[sparky692]

Havent got time atm, but will later on return from the daily grind. cant agree with some of these codes.
Laters
Jools

 

[richardg]

Thankyou for looking at the codes, I will be going out with some experienced inspectors over the next few months to gain some much needed experience working in old properties and commercial premises. THe upstairs bathroom is in the attic and the ceilings are very low, I will measure the ceiling height from the base of the bath to see if they comply.

 

[Clink]

Don't be surprised. This is a pretty common situation, especially in domestic installations that have never had a modern inspection (still the majority). The worst case is friends or family asking you to do their places for them and then getting a shock (sometimes literally) when you point out all the problems, as though it's your fault!

 

[ruston]

Just another point. If there are no RCD's there will be no test label, and kitchen equipotential bonding is not usually required.

Sorry read the post again -missed the RCBO lol.

 

[Guest55]

ha - ha ! welcome to the world of domestic periodics lol.
nightmare isnt it ? :-D
nice call of the defect codes , good effort for a noob.
Getting the gas & water bonds in is the top priority in my op.

 

[richardg]

Hi Biff55 thats exactly what I explained to our neighbour last night, bring Earth bonding up to spec and install a new consumer unit with either rcd's or rcbo. The rest of the installation can be looked at a later date.

NOOB:sunny:



A "noob" is a person who is new or inexperienced in a subject, usually an online game. Noobs are usually annoying and excessively stupid. Do not confuse noobs with newbs, who are inexperienced players that tend to be more mature and strive to become better.

 

[HandySparks]

THe upstairs bathroom is in the attic and the ceilings are very low, I will measure the ceiling height from the base of the bath to see if they comply.

If you're determining zones, then measure from the finished floor level, not the inside of the bath. See BGB Fig 701.2. It may seem wrong, but I guess it saves having to change electrical equipment if someone replaces the bath with one with longer legs.

 

[richardg]

Update to the post, after talking to other members about this EICR I found out the incoming cloth covered tails and a 80 year old cut out were very dangerous. I was very impressed when I called the emergency line for our local elec company and they sent out an emergency team to sort it out. In the it took three visits by different engineers as they lacked the skills and experience to rectify the problem. As suggested by other members I undertook remedial work to update the bonding, replace the consumer unit to 17 th regs.
After much testing and probing I have discovered a veritable can of worms with the main upstairs ring main broken. It turns out the attic conversion workers extended the ring and forgot? To reconnect the loop- I suspect a junction box hidden under floor boards. To remedy the situation I have reduced the main breaker to 16amps until the ring can be fixed or a new ring created for the attic room and ive also isolated the incoming broken part. The IR test also failed .33M
The commissioning also high lighted the ground floor ring main failed its IR test .33M- I'm thinking of breaking down the legs and testing each interconnecting part - is this best practice?
I have recommended a rewire of some circuits due to the shocking condition of the installation. Photos will follow tomorrow that will make you smile.
The good news is I passed my 2394 2395 inspectors and testing exam. (Probably the hardest exam ive ever done- harder than my A level physics exam) I'm now looking to join a guild any recommendations?
Again thankyou all for your help.

» RGPowerServices

 

[richardg]

Update to the post, after talking to other members about this EICR I found out the incoming cloth covered tails and a 80 year old cut out were very dangerous. I was very impressed when I called the emergency line for our local elec company and they sent out an emergency team to sort it out. In the it took three visits by different engineers as they lacked the skills and experience to rectify the problem. As suggested by other members I undertook remedial work to update the bonding, replace the consumer unit to 17 th regs.
After much testing and probing I have discovered a veritable can of worms with the main upstairs ring main broken. It turns out the attic conversion workers extended the ring and forgot? To reconnect the loop- I suspect a junction box hidden under floor boards. To remedy the situation I have reduced the main breaker to 16amps until the ring can be fixed or a new ring created for the attic room and ive also isolated the incoming broken part. The IR test also failed .33M
The commissioning also high lighted the ground floor ring main failed its IR test .33M- I'm thinking of breaking down the legs and testing each interconnecting part - is this best practice?
I have recommended a rewire of some circuits due to the shocking condition of the installation. Photos will follow tomorrow that will make you smile.
The good news is I passed my 2394 2395 inspectors and testing exam. (Probably the hardest exam ive ever done- harder than my A level physics exam) I'm now looking to join a guild any recommendations?
Again thankyou all for your help.

» RGPowerServices