FIT and panel change

[sambotc]

Just wondering where you would stand if, in say for example 10 years time you decided too, or had too, change your panels for different models with regards to the FIT?

For example, if your panels failed, and the same were no longer available for direct replacement?

Or if you wanted to upgrade (similar outputs and under 4kw) to a different brand?

Also are you able to change manufacturer of inverter, given the fact they are most likely to fail in the life of the system?

Technology moves at an amazing pace, and wondering if selling cheaper systems on a 'throw away' type basis on the presumption that panels will get more efficient,cheaper and/or smaller over time is a viable option?

 

[MorganPVI]

The way I read it there is a huge grey area, but if you have a broken panel and cannot get a replacement then there must be some kind of process.

I suspect the powers that be will be quick to put some rules in place if panel efficiency climbs signficantly and yeilds per Sq M rise accordingly. After all they only have a limited budget and if your generation rises by 50% per year so does your payment.

If it hurts the goverments pocket then it will not be allowed.

 

[sambotc]

Thanks for the reply, surely though however the 'contract' is written now (or at the time of said install) will be how the rules will be implemented or at least in theory ! Can't see generation going up 50% but maybe 10-20% as the system would still be limited to the inverter size or 4kw any way although presumably a greater efficiency would help on the more overcast days etc?

Interesting, and maybe worth a thought especially considering install prices will have to come down as the FIT does.

 

[MorganPVI]

Who knows what magic technology is around in 10yrs time, but your right I was overstating for effect!!!

 

[mdovey]

If the output of your system doesn't change, then you may need to update the MCS installation database with the new models, but the FIT should remain unchanged.

If you increase the output, then the additional output is regarded as a new system and gets the FIT available at the time of the upgrade, whilst the original output remains at FIT rate of the original install. If you only have one generation meter covering the combined system (as would almost certainly be the case if you are replacing panels with a higher capacity), this is calculated pro-rata.

for example. let us say you have an 8 x 250 panel system - i.e. rated at 2kW receiving the 43.3p rate.

Let use say for the sake of argument that in 10 years time the FIT rate for new installs has gone down to 10p (which is possibly optimistic).

If you were to replace the panels with whatever 250W panels were available at the time (i.e. keep the capacity at 2kW), then your FIT will remain at 43.3p (actually it will be higher because the FIT increases with inflation each year).

If you were to replace the panels with 300W panels (because improved efficiency over those 10 years means you can buy a 300W panel for the same size as a typical 250W panel is today) i.e. increasing the output to 3kW, then you would receive 43.3p for the first 2kW of output and 10p for the additional 1kW output. calculating this pro rata means that for every 1kWh produced you would receive 0.666kWh * 43.3p + 0.333 kWh * 10p = an effective FIT of 32.2p (again ignoring that the 43.3p would have been increased each year according to the rate of inflation).

That is all assuming that the current rules haven't been changed in those ten years!

 

[FB.]

I would have thought that a change of panels would be the same as a repair.

Reminds me of Grandad's trusty old broom which had ten new heads and three new handles but still swept as clean as the day it was first bought.

 

[SibertSolar]

Trigger's broom surely?

 

[hionthehill]

What if you have 8 x 250w panels and a sb1700 inveter , now,
and in 10 years time you change the pannels for 8 x 300w and keep the same inveter?

 

[mdovey]

If the DNC (declared net capacity) hasn't increased, the FIT should stay the same even if the TIC (total installed capacity) has increased - which would be the case switching from 8x250W panels to 8x300W panels but keeping an SB1700 inverter.

(Of course in practice you might find that the SB1700 inverter isn't compatible with the new panels, or would be overloaded. However, if you replaced the inverter with one with a similar output or one which had its output locked to the original declared net capacity, the same principle would apply).

 

[BruceB]

FIT rate is defined in the legislation by TIC not DNC, but the point is moot because for most cases of small PV they are identical.
Regards
Bruce

 

[sharpener]

If you increase the output, then the additional output is regarded as a new system and gets the FIT available at the time of the upgrade, whilst the original output remains at FIT rate of the original install. If you only have one generation meter covering the combined system (as would almost certainly be the case if you are replacing panels with a higher capacity), this is calculated pro-rata.

Interesting, as I had thought following from earlier postings that each system would need its own meter. Could you say where the pro rata policy is laid down? Does it still apply if you go over the 4kW break point?

I currently have a nominal 3.68 kW system with a 2kW master and 2kW slave inverter. I have enough roof to fit another 2kW of panels and can expand the inverter with another 2kW slave.

This would be highly attractive (even at much lower rates) if I don't lose the 43.3p on the first lot and don't have to install a second cable down from the loft and fit two more AC isolators and another meter. Getting DNO approval and changing the inverter settings to G59 is a small price to pay.

 

[BruceB]

Not sure that this is the latest, but from what I have to hand - an extract from the Modifications to the Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licences showing the pro-rata policy:

"10.3 In the event a Site:
10.3.1 contains separate Accredited FIT Installations, Owned by the same FIT
Generator, using the same Eligible Low-carbon Energy Source; and
10.3.2 their output is not being separately measured,
in calculating FIT Payments, the Mandatory FIT Licensee shall pro-rate the Smallscale
Low-carbon Generation by reference to the Total Installed Capacity of each
Accredited FIT Installation."

I think you will to track through the modifications over the last 6 months to be sure, but no doubt Ted will be along to put us straight.

Regards
Bruce

 

[mdovey]

This is from the latest T&Cs from SSE for their FITS

"If you have more than one FIT Generation Installation which are not being measured separately and are the same type of FIT Generation Installation, the FIT Payments due to you will be pro-rated based on the maximum operating capacity of each FIT Generation Installation."

Hence my confusion between TIC and DNC (operating capacity sounds closer to DNC to me than TIC).