genny system

[Bernard1991]

I have scrapped it and shall put the contactors used on eBay to get my money back
The immage I put on post 16 would that be safe to use for what I intend in terms of a manual change over
and shall like said in other posts look into a proper pre build control unit as a second option and get a good wiring diagram wire it up myself following it and get it properly commissioned and even have the commissioners number to hand if I get stuck (should be fine with a wiring diagram first year college I was drawing them up and in electronics I was making timer circuits and led light circuits all for 12v dc use and not ever supplied by 230v power)

But all this hinges on the generator and here's some info on it
couldn't get it all it's seriously buried under who knows what

aulternator
type. Mr1180 j609b
code. 0330202235
Date. 1999

output:
50hz
56a 110v
26a 230v

engine rpm 3000
made by. Vanguard
if there's anything more in particular anyone needs to know off the alternator let me know and I'll see if I can find it

 

[Lighthouse Phil]

last thing I need is to be pulled into a can of worms here...
I work with auto change over gents on a almost daily basis... Buy a Mains Fail change over contactor unit off the shelf,, it will have all the wiring already done and will include a mechanical interlock too.
By the sound of the description of your genny, I don't think I will have a decent AVR, so don't supply any sensitive electronics with it...
Have you thought about Earthing of the genny ?? It will need its own earth rod / matt and neutral and earth linked in the alternator
The list could continue....

 

[Bernard1991]

Hi Phil I had a feeling I would have to do something with re guards to earthing other than just it's supplied earth
I did think on the lines of a earth rod in the ground connecting to the neutral like you said I presumed this as when I was studying electrical they told us a bit about transformers on the grid and the earth was linked to the neutral and rodded to ground, won't go into it too much as we all know why it's done that way (different kettle of fish a transformer from a genny I know)

ill see if I can find a wiring diagram for the genny but on top of alternator there's a box with two 110v plugs and two 230v plugs with thermal cut outs built in for both voltages and a switch on the front to change it from 110 to 230 and all the cables come out of the alternator into it

as for the changing over from mains to genny my dad wants it to be manual (to quote him simplicity is efficient) so a few posts back I put a picture of a basics generator change over switch will that be good to use or would you recogmend something else that would be better suited?

As for the AVR I'll see if I can find one for my genny
And the only electronics we have is the useuall house hold items tv, sky, computers, router, iphone, iPad and drivers for led down lights if you want to count them

 

[Engineer54]

And the only electronics we have is the useuall house hold items tv, sky, computers, router, iphone, iPad and drivers for led down lights if you want to count them

All of which can be blown/damaged by a genny without a decent AVR of one kind or another...

An ATS can also be used in manual operation, and to be honest, if this gen-set/transfer switch is not going to be located in an easily accessible location, then ATS operation makes much more sense than manual operation. Especially if it means going outside in the pouring rain etc, to switch the damn thing on or off!!

 

[Darkwood]

Contactor buzzing! we have either saved your day or shown you the path to a nightmare ....either way i hope you can now appreciate why you were initially been given a rough ride ..... i hope by now you can appreciate with the wiring plan you originally supplied you were way off mark and in for a steep learning curve .... given both the threads there are still areas we haven't even mentioned ... im thinking you dont really get it that you can't design a compliant system by forum shopping and picking it up bit by bit....

A little knowledge is your enemy here and just wish you would appreciate the regulations and standards you need to comply to; some life critical others down to simple things like correct panel design etc (ot so critical).... no offense but you could be several yrs off the knowledge required to get this right.

 

[Geordie Spark]

You'll find some nice genny stuff in here.

Souter Lighthouse | Worldwide Lighthouses

 

[Silly Sausage]

Your man has been dribbling on about automatic Gen changeover so his wrinklinly old mother doesn't have to stand on a chair to turn a switch.
She's still going to have to leg it down the the shed in dark to turn the damned thing on.


OP, I think you'll find your parent(s) can manage quite well without you!

 

[Knobhead]

OP, I think you'll find your parent(s) can manage quite well without you!

Thanks Archy, thats summed it all up!

(I hate giving Archy a thanks)

 

[UNG]

She's still going to have to leg it down the the shed in dark to turn the damned thing on.

Or top up the fuel or is that the next automated project

 

[Plonker 3]

Or top up the fuel or is that the next automated project

Better prepare for a thread on how to terminate MIMMS then

 

[Bernard1991]

Was them last three posts (#27, #29, #30) realy neciccerry I don't mind a little criticism but taking the Micky is uncalled for ok I may have been wrong about something and I admit it that's what these forums are for to double check these thins
but it doesn't give anyone the right to take wet it's immature understandable if you knew me and I was a complete ----er but you don't know me and I'm not

getting back to to the subject I want to get this sorted and get it done so it's safe either way I'll have a certified guy check it over and to get advice from

as as for starting the genny my dad can install a proper starter and auto choke to it (he used to work on the engines that power small gennys, mowers and other garden equipment he's a old school mechanic)
then I can put together a little unit in the house with a start and stop key or button or combination of the two and the fuel tank is simpler just find a tank with a larger capacity and install it where the genny will be permanently fixed
then have a manual change over switch, all that if I choose to not use a completely automatic system
so I shall have a look on that site that Geordie spark gave me

 

[spark 68]

Here is something for you to have a look at Bernard:

Automatic Transfer Switches: FW Power Diesel Generators

I am not suggesting you buy from these, nor recommending them either, (no connection to them etc.etc.), just purely so you have an idea what is involved.

As others have said the generator you have will more than likely be unsuitable for what you have in mind.

 

[Lighthouse Phil]

Used Generators for Sale by FW Power - New and Used Diesel Generator Supplier

OP, take a look at the Lister engine / alternator for sale here. Its a Lister HR2, a work horse of an engine, coupled with a decent alternator., but the control cabinet has a new 'Deep Sea Unit' as its brains,, these units can be programmed to do so much and give so much info about the state of the engine. All new cabinets that are being installed on Irish Lighthouses use these Deep Sea units.

 

[timbobelfast]

Hope you have thought about the noise aspect of the gen because I have lived on a gen power army base lol. And the noise is intense even in a well designed gen pad lol

Have you also found out why the prime power is so un- reliant also? Is it location?

Who is the DNO?

 

[Bernard1991]

Hi timbobelfast
if I read your questions correctly I'm not sure why our main supply from our dno (westernpower) sometimes cuts out, it's more reliable than it was, it used to allways go out when the weather changed but now it's random last time was dude to maintenance of the lines and the transformer for my area is in a near by field (we live out I the country side nearest town is two miles)
the reliability of our mains is good just handy to have a back up incase the power is off for a long period and with news reports of planned black outs in 2014/2015 we will be the first to be turned off
heard reports that they won't be so bad (say the government) but I don't believe it by a long shot but let's not drift to polotics allways end in arguments lol

and if your last question was to see if I know who they are there the company who own the power network and operate it

I used to install solar electric systems for a company (I just put inverter up and connected everything up tested and switched it all on) and they had to inform the dno for that area about the install amongst other things I wasn't involved in the office I was just the installer and the office signed it all off from the test results I sent them then after they told me the readings where acceptable I then done the big turn on (but that's annother subject and won't go into it too much)

as for noise I know some can make be quite loud so It would have to be shut down after a certain time of night

 

[UNG]

Was them last three posts (#27, #29, #30) realy neciccerry I don't mind a little criticism but taking the Micky is uncalled for ok I may have been wrong about something and I admit it that's what these forums are for to double check these thins
but it doesn't give anyone the right to take wet it's immature understandable if you knew me and I was a complete ----er but you don't know me and I'm not

getting back to to the subject I want to get this sorted and get it done so it's safe either way I'll have a certified guy check it over and to get advice from

as as for starting the genny my dad can install a proper starter and auto choke to it (he used to work on the engines that power small gennys, mowers and other garden equipment he's a old school mechanic)
then I can put together a little unit in the house with a start and stop key or button or combination of the two and the fuel tank is simpler just find a tank with a larger capacity and install it where the genny will be permanently fixed
then have a manual change over switch, all that if I choose to not use a completely automatic system
so I shall have a look on that site that Geordie spark gave me

In your first paragraph you summed yourself up perfectly if you take life to seriously I don't recommend posting anything on a forum

re post #29 You seem to have over looked a lot of things so I was just making sure you had addressed the fuel supply

I assume you are aware of the fuel storage regulations for your larger tank or is that just another minor technical problem to sort

This whole thing to me appears to a very expensive solution to provide a small amount of power as the generator would need to be run regularly to prevent engine and fuel system problems and then you have the problem of the fuel in the tank going stale before it is used as well

You might actually be better with a battery bank and an inverter

 

[Engineer54]

Used Generators for Sale by FW Power - New and Used Diesel Generator Supplier

OP, take a look at the Lister engine / alternator for sale here. Its a Lister HR2, a work horse of an engine, coupled with a decent alternator., but the control cabinet has a new 'Deep Sea Unit' as its brains,, these units can be programmed to do so much and give so much info about the state of the engine. All new cabinets that are being installed on Irish Lighthouses use these Deep Sea units.

Is that Lister HR2 engine 2 stroke or 4 stroke??

 

[Engineer54]

You might actually be better with a battery bank and an inverter

Battery storage for any decent capacity or length of time via an inverter, is going to be far more expensive, in both the short and long term of the system than a standby genset.
Hazard a guess of the cost of batteries that can supply say a 5kw load for 3 hours through a suitably sized/rated inverter??

No idea about petrol fueled engines, as i've never used them, but you shouldn't have much if any of a problem with modern diesel fuels. Nothing stopping you running the system for 15 minutes or so say every month, to keep the all the moving parts of the engine lubricated.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

2 stroke or 4 stroke

The HR series are aircooled 4-stroke D/I diesels of about 1000cc P/C, widely used for construction plant, gensets, pumps, marine aux. duty & small inland craft propulsion. Also made in watercooled form as the HRW. Long time since I had one of those apart!

 

[Knobhead]

Lister will be diesel, lovely things.

One thing about large fuel tanks, both diesel and petrol go “sour” after six months or so due to evaporation and settlement.

To keep the engine in condition it needs to be run on load regularly. Otherwise it cokes up. I’ll guarantee it fails when you need it!