Help needed with codes. Pictures included

[smiffey]

Hi All
Carried out an inspection on Friday and just fill out the forms and i need some help.
1st- what code do i have to give non shower rated downlights in a bathroom? i think it should be= C1
2nd-what code for for no end to end insulation resistance on the house ring? =C2
3rd-what code for an insulation resistance of 2.59 M ohms on the downstairs lights =C3
4th- the picture below is in zone 2 so i think its as high a code as can go as its 0.6m of zone 1 = C1
View attachment 12133 View attachment 12134

C1 = DANGER PRESENT RISK OF INJURY IMMEDIATE REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C2 = POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS URGENT REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C3 = IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED

Thank you advance for any help or advice.
Cheers

 

[JUD]

Hi All
Carried out an inspection on Friday and just fill out the forms and i need some help.
1st- what code do i have to give non shower rated downlights in a bathroom? i think it should be= C1 -- If the lights are above 2.25m then they're outside zones and no requirement for "shower rated lights"
2nd-what code for for no end to end insulation resistance on the house ring? = C2 -- What is end to end insulation resistance. Do you mean end to end continuity?
3rd-what code for an insulation resistance of 2.59 M ohms on the downstairs lights =C3 -- Although 2.59MΩ is quite low, anything over 2MΩ is OK
4th- the picture below is in zone 2 so i think its as high a code as can go as its 0.6m of zone 1 = C1 -- Pictures not working
View attachment 12133 View attachment 12134

C1 = DANGER PRESENT RISK OF INJURY IMMEDIATE REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C2 = POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS URGENT REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C3 = IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED

Thank you advance for any help or advice.
Cheers

​My red

 

[mickys86]

I think the replies are going to become interesting.....

 

[smiffey]

Cheers for the replys, first off tge lights are at 2.30m so 5mm over! I thought with it being so close id flat it as c1.
2nd off sorry for the typo i was ment to say contunity. I was reading on gn3 and wrote what i was reading by mistake. The result was comeing back 0.00
3rd i understand that anything under 1 is a fail anything under 2 requires futher looking at but what about something so close to 2M ohms
4th i will have to fire the pc up in the morning and repost the pics as im now on my iphone.

Hope that clears a few things up
Cheers

 

[Strima]

Hi All
Carried out an inspection on Friday and just fill out the forms and i need some help.
1st- what code do i have to give non shower rated downlights in a bathroom? i think it should be= C1 Without knowing the type of fitment and location of the lights with regards to shower etc can't really say. At a guess C3, are the lights suitable for the environment? Are they directly above the shower and at risk of splashes and moisture etc? Is there good ventilation?
2nd-what code for for no end to end insulation resistance on the house ring? =C2 Do you mean continuity? If so C2, as the cables will more than likely be working above their CCC. Possibly even a C1.
3rd-what code for an insulation resistance of 2.59 M ohms on the downstairs lights =C3 Still within acceptable limits but what is the age and nature of the installation? I wouldn't code it however I would state that although the figures are within acceptable parameters I would expect the readings to be higher and recommend further investigation.
4th- the picture below is in zone 2 so i think its as high a code as can go as its 0.6m of zone 1 = C1 Piccy no worky...


C1 = DANGER PRESENT RISK OF INJURY IMMEDIATE REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C2 = POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS URGENT REMEDIAL ACTION REQUIRED
C3 = IMPROVEMENT RECOMMENDED

Thank you advance for any help or advice.
Cheers

My twopenneth for what it's worth...

Without knowing the age and use of the installation these are very rough guesses. What edition was it installed to?

 

[Strima]

Seen as you posted just as I was trying to think, it takes me a while:

RFC continuity coming back as 0.00 ohms? Did your MFT show open or closed circuit? If it shows closed circuit then all is good with very little resistance on the cables although I would annotate it as 0.01 ohms on the sheet.

 

[JUD]

I wouldn't call the lights being close a C1. At the end of the day they're outside the zones and there's no requirements in the regs for IP rated lights. If you're that concerned, give it a C3 (Improvement Recommended)

Are you saying the end to end on the ring is open circuit? Is it on all 3 conductors? If so then there's a break in the ring somewhere. C2 IMO.

I would pass the IR (2.59MΩ) but would recommend that the installation is inspected at shorter intervals.

 

[JUD]

RFC continuity coming back as 0.00 ohms? Did your MFT show open or closed circuit? If it shows closed circuit then all is good with very little resistance on the cables although I would annotate it as 0.01 ohms on the sheet.

That would be a very short ring circuit

 

[brucelee]

check the CPCs arent twisted together in the board for end to end of the cpc

was it end to end of line, neutral or cpc you got 0.00ohms which is a closed circuit and would be a very short bit of cable or a very large CSA of conductor to get a reading like that

I tested a newly installed CCU other week and the lad who had installed it had twisted all cpcs in the sockets and at the board but hidden at back then 2 seperate bits of sleeve on the ends looked as if they were seperate until i moved some of the cables out the way and all became clear
this was after i had checked that i had identified correct legs of ring and checked all socket outlets

 

[Strima]

That would be a very short ring circuit

Had one the other week, it was a small flat with a grand total of four socket outlets.

 

[JUD]

To get a reading of 0.01Ω on a 2.5mm² would suggest that it was only 1.35m long (0.01 ÷ (7.41 ÷ 1000) = 1.35m)

Were all the sockets next to the CU???

 

[drew35]

All the answers are in the Electrical Safety Councils guide, equipment in zones, ineffective earth, discontinues conductor etc.

 

[mogga]

check the CPCs arent twisted together in the board for end to end of the cpc

was it end to end of line, neutral or cpc you got 0.00ohms which is a closed circuit and would be a very short bit of cable or a very large CSA of conductor to get a reading like that

I tested a newly installed CCU other week and the lad who had installed it had twisted all cpcs in the sockets and at the board but hidden at back then 2 seperate bits of sleeve on the ends looked as if they were seperate until i moved some of the cables out the way and all became clear
this was after i had checked that i had identified correct legs of ring and checked all socket outlets

I was on a job the other week n another contractors apprentice was askin bits n bobs about testing even he said this was his pet hate Only come across it twice where twisted outside DB n seperated inside God there are some absolute numptys out there

 

[smiffey]

Hi all,
Strima, The bathroom lights are normal mains gu10 lamps and arnt directly over the shower but could defenatly have contact with stram and moisture.

Strima & jud, brucelee, mogga the end to end was belling out ok as that was one of the first things i checked with my fluke t5's it was belling on line to line, eathr to earth and neutral to neutral i also belled out every wire against every wire to check for cross connections and it all was fine. Then when i put my actull testers fluke mft 1653 on i got a result of 0.00 on all the wires. The circuit is the hole house ring 13 sockets in total, not insludeing the kitchen ring on a diffrent mcb. also the earth was two seprate wires and i pulled a bit of the slack down and checked and re sleved.

The house was wired to the 16th edition at a gess as there was a huge rccd device in line on the main tails. The wires were solid copper but black and red in colour and by how low the insulation resistance is id say comeing very close to the end of its life so 20 - 25 years?

 

[smiffey]

 

[tony mc]

If you are getting 0.00 ohms on all the end to end continuity readings you really need to be looking a little harder as something is not right especially how you have discribed the FRC.

Did you try taking the readings at a socket outlet?

What was you R1 + R2 for the ring cct ? What was the ZS for the cct ?

 

[Strima]

View attachment 12137View attachment 12138

That's cheeky...

 

[tony mc]

I would code both C2 due to the fact that they are in Zone 2 and not IPX4 or better IMO.

What is the IP rating of the towel rail?

 

[Top Cat]

Hi all,
Strima, The bathroom lights are normal mains gu10 lamps and arnt directly over the shower but could defenatly have contact with stram and moisture.

Strima & jud, brucelee, mogga the end to end was belling out ok as that was one of the first things i checked with my fluke t5's it was belling on line to line, eathr to earth and neutral to neutral i also belled out every wire against every wire to check for cross connections and it all was fine. Then when i put my actull testers fluke mft 1653 on i got a result of 0.00 on all the wires. The circuit is the hole house ring 13 sockets in total, not insludeing the kitchen ring on a diffrent mcb. also the earth was two seprate wires and i pulled a bit of the slack down and checked and re sleved.

The house was wired to the 16th edition at a gess as there was a huge rccd device in line on the main tails. The wires were solid copper but black and red in colour and by how low the insulation resistance is id say comeing very close to the end of its life so 20 - 25 years?

Still can't see 0.00 or 0.01 for number of sockets, are you sure you didn't have meter set to Mohms? Sorry if that sounds condescending but we have all done it!

Cant see why pvc/pvc cant go on almost indefinitely, i would say any poor IR readings are usually at sockets. I bet if you took all the sockets off, put chock blocks on, your IR readings would get up to the 100 Mohms sort of reading.

 

[Strima]

That's what the meter said. Even broke the ring to check and used my confidence box on the meter, all checked out. Meter was calibrated last week and came back with no problems. Each socket test was a little different due to the metal conduit being the CPC.

All test on the circuits were excellent considering they were installed in 1955. Something to be said for imperial stranded cables.