Help with spurs from ring main

[Callumh1992]

Good evening. Currently sorting out my girlfriend’s flat for rent. I’ve found all sorts of bad electrical work.

Can anyone advise if this is an acceptable way of connecting 2 spurs to the ring main? It will all be connected in a double back box behind a blank plate on a wall using 32amp rated wagos?

I don’t see any issues would just like some other opinions

 

[nicebutdim]

It's not acceptable to have more than one spur from a single point, in this manner.

This work would also require a minor works certificate.

If you're planning on renting, the required EICR should highlight any such work and you'd then be obliged to pay someone to put it right and issue certification to that effect. It would be easier to involve a spark now, have them extend the ring to provide any necessary additional sockets and provide certification for it - probably also cheaper in the long run.

 

[Callumh1992]

It's not acceptable to have more than one spur from a single point, in this manner.

This work would also require a minor works certificate.

If you're planning on renting, the required EICR should highlight any such work and you'd then be obliged to pay someone to put it right and issue certification to that effect. It would be easier to involve a spark now, have them extend the ring to provide any necessary additional sockets and provide certification for it - probably also cheaper in the long run.

I am a spark. I will be carrying out EICR I’ve uncovered many problem worse than this one so far.

Am I not right in thinking I’m not breaking the Ring?

I’ve got the ring main coming into 2 separate connector blocks and link them together.

Would it not work the same as if I was to get 2 single sockets and link between them then take a spur of each socket? This way it would just get rid of unessacesary sockets at high level.

Blank plate will be accessible within a cupboard.

 

[nicebutdim]

I am a spark. I will be carrying out EICR I’ve uncovered many problem worse than this one so far.

Am I not right in thinking I’m not breaking the Ring?

I’ve got the ring main coming into 2 separate connector blocks and link them together.

Would it not work the same as if I was to get 2 single sockets and link between them then take a spur of each socket? This way it would just get rid of unessacesary sockets at high level.

Blank plate will be accessible within a cupboard.

I see what you mean with that short length of cable between the two joints. I guess you could argue the t.o.s.s. if someone took issue with the work, but I don't know why you wouldn't just extend the ring - you have to pull a cable to each spur, so why not pull an extra leg between them at the same time?

Edit: Not sure why 't o s s' falls foul of a word filter.

 

[ferg]

I agree with NBD on extending the ring but Technically no different to a ring at grid switches.

 

[Callumh1992]

I agree with NBD on extending the ring but Technically no different to a ring at grid switches.

Extending the ring would be the ideal world. However concrete walls etc. pretty much before there was a box behind the wall I uncovered both all 4 cables were just twisted together.

So surely this is an upgrade?

 

[westward10]

So what you are saying this is existing and not a method you are about to undertake but you wish to improve the connections?

 

[Callumh1992]

So what you are saying this is existing and not a method you are about to undertake but you wish to improve the connections?

Pretty much this is the scenario. So before it was all connectored together. I’ve now essentially split the 2 spur to the ring. Quite hard to explain.

 

[timhoward]

The only regulation about ring final circuits allows for the "intended conditions of use" to be considered when determining compliance. Without knowing this I don't think we can say for certain that the diagram in the OP wouldn't comply. See 433.1.204

I do agree with @nicebutdim that extending the ring is preferable as every sparks in the land will accept it as compliant.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I do agree with @nicebutdim that extending the ring is preferable as every sparks in the land will accept it as compliant.

That would also apply if the ring was just extended one side, which might be easier?

 

[timhoward]

That would also apply if the ring was just extended one side, which might be easier?

A further wacky but universally accepted solution - if the intent was to cover this all with a blanking plate, then you could get hold one of these rare animals...

and fit a fused spur so both sides are fused down.

 

[Avo Mk8]

At a price - though eBay even more (as usual)

Nursecall Intercall AD1 Adapter Plate

AD1 from the Nursecall Intercall range of products is an Adaptor Plate which converts a single gang plate to fit a double gang box. It has a white metal coating.

www.acornfiresecurity.com

 

[Callumh1992]

At a price - though eBay even more (as usual)

Nursecall Intercall AD1 Adapter Plate

AD1 from the Nursecall Intercall range of products is an Adaptor Plate which converts a single gang plate to fit a double gang box. It has a white metal coating.

www.acornfiresecurity.com

What is that? Never seen one.

 

[Avo Mk8]

What is that? Never seen one.

So you can fit a single accessory (such as a fuse for a spur) where there was a double accessory (such as a twin socket)

 

[littlespark]

To my mind, there’s nothing wrong with the initial diagram. It’s two spurs off two separate points of a rfc…. Just very close together.

Extending the ring is favourable, but may be impossible now if those are existing spurs, and cable route is now difficult.

Switch fuse on a double box is certainly doable with grid switch and fuse modules. Could have a switch and fuse for both spurs on a 4 gang grid…. If you wanted to. It’s not required.

 

[nicebutdim]

Two general points about fusing down to spur from a ring. Not directed at OP who's trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I'd seek to avoid doing so unless prominently placed for lighting. I've attended a couple of 'faults' where unknown spurs were well hidden and took some finding, with the actual fault being the fuse.

There has been a couple of mentions of 'switched' fused spurs. This is something else I'd seek to avoid, unless a switch is required for functional purposes - again such as lighting. It's not something I've encountered, but there have been several threads on this forum where 'faults' turned out to be due to an fcu being switched off and the poster finally learning the purpose of an unknown switch.

I like to think beyond the 'here and now' and try to make life as simple as possible for those who come behind me. Too often I'm the guy who comes behind and wish that those who were there before me had made just a little more effort

 

[Pretty Mouth]

In my opinion, the arrangement in the OP is fine.

I'd also say that both spurs from one connection point is fine too. Think of a twin socket with another twin socket spurred from its terminals, it would only be expected to introduce 2 twin sockets worth of load onto the ring at that point. If two spurs were connected to the same point on the ring via a JB, the same expected load would be on the connectors.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I've attended a couple of 'faults' where unknown spurs were well hidden and took some finding, with the actual fault being the fuse.

Same here. it took me a full day once to find one tucked away in the loft, for 3 random sockets on the ground floor.

 

[Callumh1992]

Thanks for all your input guys. It seems to be that it’s down to personal preference on the best thing to do/if it’s appropriate. In my head I can’t see an issue on how I’ve connected as per the diagram posted.