Immersion problem

[Prime Design]

Hi lads,

My client is having problems with her peak and off peak immersion. She claims she isn't getting enough hot water. I turned both thermostats up but she is still having the same problem. They are new elements but I tested them anyway and they are working fine. I'm wondering if the problem is a plumbing issue, maybe the tank isn't being filled up fully. Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi lads,

My client is having problems with her peak and off peak immersion. She claims she isn't getting enough hot water. I turned both thermostats up but she is still having the same problem. They are new elements but I tested them anyway and they are working fine. I'm wondering if the problem is a plumbing issue, maybe the tank isn't being filled up fully. Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

How olds the cylinder?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Is the off peak immersion at the bottom?

 

[davesparks]

How is the off peak supply controlled, timeswitch or teleswitch?
Have you checked the overheat cutout in the stats?

 

[cprfenom]

How have you confirmed that the element is ok?

 

[Leesparkykent]

How have you confirmed that the element is ok?

Hi lads,


My client is having problems with her peak and off peak immersion. She claims she isn't getting enough hot water. I turned both thermostats up but she is still having the same problem. They are new elements but I tested them anyway and they are working fine. I'm wondering if the problem is a plumbing issue, maybe the tank isn't being filled up fully. Any ideas as to what the problem might be?


The OP above ^

 

[Octopus]

Hum..... off peak - is the E7 actually kicking in? have they recently changed suppliers?

Peak - what is the temperature set at?

 

[davesparks]

How new is new? I had to replace an immersion which was only a month old a couple of years ago. The idiot who did it the first time round fitted a copper immersion heater instead of incalloy or titanium, no surprise it had enough it had rotted through.

 

[Prime Design]

The Cylinder looks around 15-20 years old. I haven't had direct contact with the landlord yet, only the tenant.
I know it's incorrect but on arrival both top and bottom element were plugged into a double socket controlled by a double pole switch on a dedicated circuit for an immersion protected by a 16A MCB. The water pump is being fed from the same circuit. I've quoted to remove all sockets from that circuit, reinstate the off peak immersion to the economy 7 supply, reinstate the peak immersion and install a socket for the pump from the ring via a 3A fused spur.
I tested for continuity between live an neutral, I can't remember the reading but I did get continuity, then I tested for continuity between live and earth and then between neutral and earth and didn't get a reading.
I didn't check the cut out in the stat, is that the same as the reset button?

 

[cprfenom]

The term new doesn't mean squat. Hence why I asked how he had confirmed that the element was fine

 

[davesparks]

What do you think the reset button actually re-sets?

Did you IR test the elements?

 

[HandySparks]

... and install a socket for the pump from the ring via a 3A fused spur.

Why?

I tested for continuity between live an neutral, I can't remember the reading but I did get continuity...

What sort of value would you expect?

I didn't check the cut out in the stat, is that the same as the reset button?

Yes, although sometimes they're a separate component.

 

[cprfenom]

To be honest, you need to confirm that the thermostat is working as intended also.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Hi lads,

My client is having problems with her peak and off peak immersion. She claims she isn't getting enough hot water. I turned both thermostats up but she is still having the same problem. They are new elements but I tested them anyway and they are working fine. I'm wondering if the problem is a plumbing issue, maybe the tank isn't being filled up fully. Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

Does this mean she's getting some hot water but not in great quantity?

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Re: the new elements, are these new due to the same issue?

 

[Deleted member 72666]

The Cylinder looks around 15-20 years old. I haven't had direct contact with the landlord yet, only the tenant.
I know it's incorrect but on arrival both top and bottom element were plugged into a double socket controlled by a double pole switch on a dedicated circuit for an immersion protected by a 16A MCB. The water pump is being fed from the same circuit. I've quoted to remove all sockets from that circuit, reinstate the off peak immersion to the economy 7 supply, reinstate the peak immersion and install a socket for the pump from the ring via a 3A fused spur.
I tested for continuity between live an neutral, I can't remember the reading but I did get continuity, then I tested for continuity between live and earth and then between neutral and earth and didn't get a reading.
I didn't check the cut out in the stat, is that the same as the reset button?

Now this bit confuses me! Are you saying that both elements are fed from the 2 gang socket at the same time via a 16 amp mcb? If so has she mentioned the tripping of the breaker? Or am I reading this all wrong?
Also when you checked for continuity did both elements read roughly the same?

 

[Octopus]

Is it me or is this all sounding a bit odd?

Both elements connected to a 2g socket on a dedicated circuit.

What controls when they are switched on and off?

 

[Prime Design]

I didn't IR the elements
I'd expect a zero value when doing continuity
I would remove the pump from the immersion circuit so the immersion doesn't interfere with the pump under fault conditions and vice versa.
I was never told what the reset button actually resets, I usually just press it anyway, I don't know why I didn't press it today.
E7 works, I turned it on to confirm power supply even though both elements were plugged into a double socket.

 

[Octopus]

How did you turn on the E7 during the day?

 

[davesparks]

Why didn't you IR test the elements?
A resistance of zero when testing the element would be a dead short and result in a loud bang when switched on, use the equation associated with ohms law to work out what resistance you should get.

Why should someone have to tell you what the reset button is for, can't you manage to do your own research or even use some common sense to work out what could possibly be contained in a thermostat which may need to be reset?

 

[Prime Design]

She doesn't plug them both in at the same time, I asked about fuses blowing and MCB's tripping but she says nothing blows or trips.
The set up is odd because the bottom element is plugged into a timer which is plugged into the peak supply double socket

 

[Knobhead]

Read his last thread……..

I'm out of here before Marvo says we lack easter spirt.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

I didn't IR the elements
I'd expect a zero value when doing continuity
I would remove the pump from the immersion circuit so the immersion doesn't interfere with the pump under fault conditions and vice versa.
I was never told what the reset button actually resets, I usually just press it anyway, I don't know why I didn't press it today.
E7 works, I turned it on to confirm power supply even though both elements were plugged into a double socket.

Try again!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Read his last thread……..

I'm out of here before Marvo says we lack easter spirt.

As soon as I saw who the OP was ... :smilielol5:

 

[Prime Design]

Dave Sparks what is the purpose of this forum? I'm on here because I need help, not a lecture so don't talk to me about common sense! A zero reading would indicate a dead short when doing IR but I did continuity.
E7 has a switch on the meter.

 

[Prime Design]

When doing continuity between live and earth and neutral and earth I'd expect 999 on my Megger. When doing continuity between live and neutral I'd expect a low value

 

[davesparks]

Dave Sparks what is the purpose of this forum? I'm on here because I need help, not a lecture so don't talk to me about common sense! A zero reading would indicate a dead short when doing IR but I did continuity.
E7 has a switch on the meter.

The purpose of this forum is to make money for the person who owns it through the advertising etc.

A zero reading on continuity is also a dead short. The element should have a specific resistance which you calculate from its power and voltage ratings. This is basic physics taught to every schoolchild so I don't think it is in any way unfair to expect you to know how to do this.

 

[davesparks]

When doing continuity between live and earth and neutral and earth I'd expect 999 on my Megger. When doing continuity between live and neutral I'd expect a low value

There should be no continuity between live or neutral and earth, there should however be insulation, so you carry out an insulation test!

 

[cprfenom]

In fairness to prime, the school I went to only taught us how to steal car wheels and use bricks and axel stands :thinking::thinking:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hi lads,

My client is having problems with her peak and off peak immersion. She claims she isn't getting enough hot water. I turned both thermostats up but she is still having the same problem. They are new elements but I tested them anyway and they are working fine. I'm wondering if the problem is a plumbing issue, maybe the tank isn't being filled up fully. Any ideas as to what the problem might be?

It's impossible for the tank not to be fully filled - assuming it's being fed by a header tank of course which most are.

Water will always find its own level and from the bottom of the header tank it gallops down a pipe and enters the bottom of the cylinder, from the top of the cylinder a pipe runs back up to the very top of the expansion tank

As the cylinder is filling, water is rising back up the expansion pipe until it reaches the same level as the top of the water in the expansion tank and that is why the cylinder will always be full.

I suspect our friend Lee makes a good point at post #3.

And stop calling your customers "clients"!!

Prostitutes and Solicitors/Lawyers have "clients" and both will screw you one way or another. We who work in honourable trades, have Customers!! :sailor:

 

[Knobhead]

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/97805-underfloor-heating.html

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-forum-general-electrical-forum/86265-ir-tests-fault-finding.html

 

[telectrix]

Prostitutes have clients,andSolicitors/Lawyers have victims. we who work in honourable trades have Customers!!

corrected that for you.

 

[Leesparkykent]

You want the formula on the right.

 

[7029 dave]

You want the formula on the right.

Have you ever fancied teaching then Lee.?

 

[Knobhead]

You want the formula on the right.

Give up Lee, read the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] link I posted,

 

[davesparks]

You want the formula on the right.

But he's only got P and those formulas only use V, I and R. You must have got the wrong formula!

Is April the first hanging around a bit longer this year?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Have you ever fancied teaching then Lee.?

Maybe 1 day when I can't get up a ladder no more lol.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Get up Lee, read the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] link I posted,

Haha just read it :dunce2:

 

[telectrix]

Give up Lee, read the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] link I posted,

they's all a bit slow, south of the severn/trent.

 

[Leesparkykent]

they's all a bit slow, south of the severn/trent.

originally from Shrewsbury though lol

 

[Knobhead]

they's all a bit slow, south of the severn/trent.

I know, I lived in Grantham for two years.

As for crossing the Trent in Nottingham, I value my life!

 

[Knobhead]

But he's only got P and those formulas only use V, I and R. You must have got the wrong formula!

For gods sake, don’t confuse him with [SUP]2[/SUP]’s

 

[davesparks]

For gods sake, don’t confuse him with [SUP]2[/SUP]’s

I think he's simply got too many gigawatts in his flux capacitor.

3000 watts is 300 gigawatts isn't it? Or is it 0.3 kilowatts? I get confused!

 

[Knobhead]

Looks like we've got rid of him again.

 

[PEG]

...All of this,is not helping that tenant get his/her nethers douched...:conehead:

 

[davesparks]

...All of this,is not helping that tenant get his/her nethers douched...:conehead:

Nor is the OP, an electrician would have tested it and diagnosed the fault while he was there rather than coming on here asking for advice

 

[Knobhead]

She can use the kettle.

 

[Prime Design]

Looks like we've got rid of him again.

Not quite but carry on!

 

[davesparks]

Not quite but carry on!

Go on then, tell us all what resistance you should get when carrying out a continuity test on an immersion heater. I'll give you a clue, a SP immersion heater is normally 3KW@240V AC

 

[Knobhead]

OK being as you’re here at this early hour:

Given some of your started threads, this one in particular, what are you using for your CR readings and what ranges do you use?