insulation test before fitting an rcd

[Regs]

I thought the insulation resistance test before fitting an rcd was for nuisance tripping not to see if you had over 1 M.O. Regardless how low the reading as long as its not going to cause nuisance tripping then you are only adding to the safety of the installation surley

 

[Octopus]

Me puzzled.

 

[markc123]

I thought the insulation resistance test before fitting an rcd was for nuisance tripping not to see if you had over 1 M.O. Regardless how low the reading as long as its not going to cause nuisance tripping then you are only adding to the safety of the installation surley

What?

I have literally no idea what you're talking about. If you have an IR of anywhere near 2 M.O IMO it needs/warrants investigation/rectification.

I'm not sure what fitting an RCD has got to do with IR testing...RCD's are only for additional protection.......Actually i'll stop, because i'm rabbiting now, i genuinley have no idea what you're on about so please clarify/re-write your OP and we can help you

 

[Octopus]

Previous posts paint a picture.

 

[Guest111]

This test and others that you should perform beforehand are not just to avoid problems with tripping,they are also about covering yourself,if you work on an installation and then there is an issue and someone gets hurt it could be you in the dock,then try and explain why you didn't test.Last week I went to a commercial job to change a board,the supply cable was replaced 20 years ago and the install has been worked on since,however it would appear that I was the only one to test it as there was no earth,this was traced to a missing link in the cut out(pme).What annoyed me was not only had succesive sparks never tested it but neither had the dno when the feed was fitted.

 

[Regs]

Was asking why insulation test before fitting an rcd basically?

 

[Regs]

This test and others that you should perform beforehand are not just to avoid problems with tripping,they are also about covering yourself,if you work on an installation and then there is an issue and someone gets hurt it could be you in the dock,then try and explain why you didn't test.Last week I went to a commercial job to change a board,the supply cable was replaced 20 years ago and the install has been worked on since,however it would appear that I was the only one to test it as there was no earth,this was traced to a missing link in the cut out(pme).What annoyed me was not only had succesive sparks never tested it but neither had the dno when the feed was fitted.

This is my point though, if customer says i don't have extra cash to investigate a low insulation reading & correct it. Then do you a)still fit the rcd or b)Walk from job
My point is i would do (a) as you are making the installation safer, so my point is the insulation resistance test is surely really only for nuisance tripping.

 

[stuartcourt]

point A check circuits etc are safe before you do any work as it becomes your problem, b people will do some crazy things to stop nuisance tripping especially if they have no money so would you be making it safer

 

[Des 56]

134.2.1 of the good book tells you what you must achieve when adding too or altering an installation,it tells you how it can be achieved by test and inspection

The insulation resistance test is part of a series of tests that will verify if the standard has been complied with when adding or altering an installation

If you were to fit a consumer unit with an RCD (made an alteration to an existing installation)then the recomendations for the integrity of the insulation resistance of that installation (by comparing values with what is written in the good book )they can be verified as complying with the standard and the values that are suggested

You could even have earth leakage sufficient enough on an installation, that could trip an Rcd whether the insulation resistance was good bad or terrible
The test you are questioning is only one way of giving indication if there is system fault that would likely cause the Rcd to trip if it was fitted

The values that people have been referring too, are relevant when adding or altering an installation and initial verification,they are relevant for all work that you carry out

 

[markc123]

This is my point though, if customer says i don't have extra cash to investigate a low insulation reading & correct it. Then do you a)still fit the rcd or b)Walk from job
My point is i would do (a) as you are making the installation safer, so my point is the insulation resistance test is surely really only for nuisance tripping.

I was only mentioning him in the 'pub' area today aswell - but im starting to think you're maybe a 'mini-cockburn' Regs....(sorry for the insult) However, you are getting lost in your own ideas here & over complicating matters.

If a customer doesn't want to pay for a job to be done properly, that is completley there problem - and if it's againts regs/wrong/dangerous, you write them a letter and keep a copy of the letter for your own file - but if its really dangerous you lock it off and then they don't use the said circuit. You can't go around slutting yourself for people who don't want to slap out the cash. There is a reason we spent years training to be electricians, and that is to do a decent job and get paid a decent amount in return for our professional services.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

I was only mentioning him in the 'pub' area today aswell - but im starting to think you're maybe a 'mini-cockburn' Regs....(sorry for the insult) However, you are getting lost in your own ideas here & over complicating matters.

If a customer doesn't want to pay for a job to be done properly, that is completley there problem - and if it's againts regs/wrong/dangerous, you write them a letter and keep a copy of the letter for your own file - but if its really dangerous you lock it off and then they don't use the said circuit. You can't go around slutting yourself for people who don't want to slap out the cash. There is a reason we spent years training to be electricians, and that is to do a decent job and get paid a decent amount in return for our professional services.

Very good analogy!

 

[Regs]

We can't all be electrical experts and there is no wonder at all that there are so many bad trades people when you can't ask questions. If you find some questions basic or whatever then stop reading posts or replying, i don't remember holding a gun to anyone's head!. It doesn't make you look big writing some sarcastic answers.
Thanks to the other whom were constructive for the reply's.

 

[Octopus]

We can't all be electrical experts and there is no wonder at all that there are so many bad trades people when you can't ask questions. If you find some questions basic or whatever then stop reading posts or replying, i don't remember holding a gun to anyone's head!. It doesn't make you look big writing some sarcastic answers.
Thanks to the other whom were constructive for the reply's.

22 posts to his name and the toys have been thrown out of the pram. You'll need thicker skin out in the big world matey.

 

[markc123]

We can't all be electrical experts and there is no wonder at all that there are so many bad trades people when you can't ask questions. If you find some questions basic or whatever then stop reading posts or replying, i don't remember holding a gun to anyone's head!. It doesn't make you look big writing some sarcastic answers.
Thanks to the other whom were constructive for the reply's.

Nobody is an electrical expert mate, and nobody here is pretending to be.

Maybe the Cockburn reference was slightly sarcastic, and in which i appologise - i just feel the hole thread is slightly confusing at best.

 

[Havenbuild]

We can't all be electrical experts and there is no wonder at all that there are so many bad trades people when you can't ask questions. If you find some questions basic or whatever then stop reading posts or replying, i don't remember holding a gun to anyone's head!. It doesn't make you look big writing some sarcastic answers.
Thanks to the other whom were constructive for the reply's.

I agree, we all have to learn from somewhere / someone. Its better to ask and look silly than not ask and balls it up!!!

 

[markc123]

I agree, we all have to learn from somewhere / someone. Its better to ask and look silly than not ask and balls it up!!!

Looking back at the wording of his questions now, i can maybe see he's not up to scratch with the game.

However, all he had to do was state that he was an a trainee and/or post the question in the relevant forum for a totally different outcome to the thread.

Appologies.

 

[Havenbuild]

Looking back at the wording of his questions now, i can maybe see he's not up to scratch with the game.

However, all he had to do was state that he was an a trainee and/or post the question in the relevant forum for a totally different outcome to the thread.

Appologies.

Another lesson learned to add to his list of "lessons learned":cheesy:

 

[44ALLAN]

Was asking why insulation test before fitting an rcd basically?

Study up mate....................

Doing an IR test has absolutely nothing to do with fitting an RCD............read the replies then go away and digest

 

[Regs]

Nobody is an electrical expert mate, and nobody here is pretending to be.

Maybe the Cockburn reference was slightly sarcastic, and in which i appologise - i just feel the hole thread is slightly confusing at best.

Apology accepted, if i go to this other learners section or whatever will i still get decent advice? new to whole forum thing

 

[Regs]

Study up mate....................

Doing an IR test has absolutely nothing to do with fitting an RCD............read the replies then go away and digest

I know that. I just read on some forum that it was good practise to do an insulation test before fitting an rcd, i assumed it was for nuisance tripping!. After getting several replies and trying to decipher, my understanding now is its good practice to test anything before leaving your signature on it. Why people go round and round the houses on these forums is beyond me. Some simple answers would be so greatly appreciated, not just to myself. I've come to the simple conclusion that people are just way to quick to put the boot in!
They can try score as many points as they want, as mentioned above i would rather look silly and try get it right.......

 

[Regs]

134.2.1 of the good book tells you what you must achieve when adding too or altering an installation,it tells you how it can be achieved by test and inspection

The insulation resistance test is part of a series of tests that will verify if the standard has been complied with when adding or altering an installation

If you were to fit a consumer unit with an RCD (made an alteration to an existing installation)then the recomendations for the integrity of the insulation resistance of that installation (by comparing values with what is written in the good book )they can be verified as complying with the standard and the values that are suggested

You could even have earth leakage sufficient enough on an installation, that could trip an Rcd whether the insulation resistance was good bad or terrible
The test you are questioning is only one way of giving indication if there is system fault that would likely cause the Rcd to trip if it was fitted

The values that people have been referring too, are relevant when adding or altering an installation and initial verification,they are relevant for all work that you carry out

Thanks for your answer.
I think i now see what you and others are saying in that if you test after when you finish a job and the installation you just worked on is ****e and rigged with faults ect then they become your problem. Instead of just testing before hand so you know what your getting involved with?
What other ways could you test before fitting an rcd then?

 

[44ALLAN]

I know that. I just read on some forum that it was good practise to do an insulation test before fitting an rcd, i assumed it was for nuisance tripping!.

Originally Posted by Regs
Was asking why insulation test before fitting an rcd basically?

If you knew you wouldn't have posted that mate to be honest.

No-one is trying to score points here.
Maybe if you studied and grasped 'WHY' you did an IR test in the first place you wouldn't be getting confused with Rcd's and nuisance tripping which has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You won't get much help unless you know the basics mate..............too dangerous giving you advice when you don't understand this..............harsh but.............................

 

[Regs]

I know that. I just read on some forum that it was good practise to do an insulation test before fitting an rcd, i assumed it was for nuisance tripping!.

Originally Posted by Regs
Was asking why insulation test before fitting an rcd basically?

If you knew you wouldn't have posted that mate to be honest.

No-one is trying to score points here.
Maybe if you studied and grasped 'WHY' you did an IR test in the first place you wouldn't be getting confused with Rcd's and nuisance tripping which has absolutely nothing to do with it.
You won't get much help unless you know the basics mate..............too dangerous giving you advice when you don't understand this..............harsh
but.............................

You still miss understand. Get the boot in, cheers

 

[SPARTYKUS]

You still miss understand. Get the boot in, cheers

No regs, he doesnt mis understand, all he's said is you need a basic understanding of first principles which by your question you admit not to having.

its not a boot its sound advice.

I assume you're doing paid work somewhere from what you've posted. This isn't a boot either but you shouldn't be (if you are).

Also, theres no point asking a question but them not liking the answers.... Please don't be defensive because its you that has lost out at that point, as Murdoch said grow a thicker skin, laugh it off, in this thread there are pearls of wisdom.

sorry!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I know that. I just read on some forum that it was good practise to do an insulation test before fitting an rcd, i assumed it was for nuisance tripping!. After getting several replies and trying to decipher, my understanding now is its good practice to test anything before leaving your signature on it. Why people go round and round the houses on these forums is beyond me. Some simple answers would be so greatly appreciated, not just to myself. I've come to the simple conclusion that people are just way to quick to put the boot in!
They can try score as many points as they want, as mentioned above i would rather look silly and try get it right.......

From your profile:

[h=5]About Regs[/h]Location:essexOccupation:electrician[h=5]Electrical Information[/h]Information about your electrical experience.
What electrical qualifications do you have?:2391 17th
Are you sure ?????

Really??????????!!!!!!!!

 

[jamesBoater]

Seems hard to believe considering in an earlier post about IR results and tripping of RCD,s the OP didnt know how to work out current flow! How could you pass the 2391 and not know Ohms law!

From your profile:

About Regs

Location:essexOccupation:electricianElectrical Information

Information about your electrical experience.
What electrical qualifications do you have?:2391 17th
Are you sure ?????

Really??????????!!!!!!!!

 

[Octopus]

This thread should be in the learning area.

 

[Regs]

This thread should be in the learning area.

Stop reading my threads, no others have problems, infact they give good answers and help.
I just get misunderstood all the time. Im not going to keep explain and justify myself every post over and over and over. I understand the theory they teach that in a classroom but in the real world no 1 explains how to fill out sheets

I don't have to put up with harasment, why should i
i'm entitled to use the site just like any 1 else
Who is in charge on this web site?, let them make decisions, not u, get them on the phone to me i have nothing to hide! and they will see my lvl of experience to judge

Please leave me alone.

 

[Flanders]

One reason for caring out the installation resistance test before fitting RCDs, RCBOs or RCD sockets was to prevent damaged to the RCD when caring out the test

 

[Marvo]

Apology accepted, if i go to this other learners section or whatever will i still get decent advice? new to whole forum thing

The trainee learning forum is only available to those who are going to college or otherwise studying for a recognised qualification at present. It's designed to be a place where they can get supplementary assistance and tutoring in order to complete their course successfully. Its not a place for people who are working full time at customers premises to go when they're out of their depth, these guys should be working under an experienced sparky already who should be there to help if necessary.

 

[Octopus]

Stop reading my threads, no others have problems, infact they give good answers and help.
I just get misunderstood all the time. Im not going to keep explain and justify myself every post over and over and over. I understand the theory they teach that in a classroom but in the real world no 1 explains how to fill out sheets

I don't have to put up with harasment, why should i
i'm entitled to use the site just like any 1 else
Who is in charge on this web site?, let them make decisions, not u, get them on the phone to me i have nothing to hide! and they will see my lvl of experience to judge

Please leave me alone.

Hum.... what you need to do is learn how to post properly thought out questions, along with how you aim to approach the "issue". By posting half baked tripe, you leave yourself wide open for ridicule. Plus, if you are still "learning" and meet the criteria of the learning area you would not be open to the world seeing your posts.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

Don't post them in a public forum then.

Idiot (and a dangerous one at that).

Stop reading my threads, no others have problems, infact they give good answers and help.
I just get misunderstood all the time. Im not going to keep explain and justify myself every post over and over and over. I understand the theory they teach that in a classroom but in the real world no 1 explains how to fill out sheets

I don't have to put up with harasment, why should i
i'm entitled to use the site just like any 1 else
Who is in charge on this web site?, let them make decisions, not u, get them on the phone to me i have nothing to hide! and they will see my lvl of experience to judge

Please leave me alone.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

And whilst not learning in a customers home.

Disgusting IMHO.

Hum.... what you need to do is learn how to post properly thought out questions, along with how you aim to approach the "issue". By posting half baked tripe, you leave yourself wide open for ridicule. Plus, if you are still "learning" and meet the criteria of the learning area you would not be open to the world seeing your posts.

 

[Marvo]

closed