Wetroom Store - Network Wetroom Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

JIB Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) JIB told me I wasn't a spark.....?

Discuss JIB told me I wasn't a spark.....? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

P

p11jor

Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

Phoned the j I b up and told them my quals

2330 level 3
2392
2391
17th edition

They told me I was a level 1 trainee.....
 
Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
V

vernam616

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Lack of NVQ 3, i can never understand why people go sit the 2391 yet completley miss out the 2356 NVQ3 which is easier, must be a cost thing
 

widdler

-
Mentor
Arms
Phoned the j I b up and told them my quals

2330 level 3
2392
2391
17th edition

They told me I was a level 1 trainee.....

I contacted them a couple of years ago out of general enquiry. I gave them all my credentials, history blah blah blah I was told I could be graded as a provisional technician or an improver.

Luckily I have no dependence on the JIB and never will - the JIB are a wasted opportunity.
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
It wasn't so much a cost thing......I just done the 2330 and got a distinction on the testing & inspection so was told to sit the 2391, 3 day course over a weekend and the exam on the Wednesday so that just came in a flash, I am also a NAPIT member so had 12/18 months to gain the 2391 from acceptance! Guess I will have to go about taking photos and do the nvq now!!......"yes mrs smith there is your new light fitting, would you mind taking a photo of me fitting it?"!!
 
IMO- Nvq is a waste of time and possibly the worst thought out qualification ever! BUT the JIB have set a minimum standard for a sparks and it includes it - You should be able to blitz it, theres nothing hard about it just time consuming!
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
I have had a look online and xs training do a online one with a E-portfolio And I just download my pictures to that.....£550 + vat......seems ok?
 
The Nvq is part of every new electrical apprenticeship and if you completed your apprenticeship before the time of the Nvq the JIB will still give your an electrician status.

Whats the problem?!?!? Complete your apprenticeship thoroughly and you'll get the card!!

At least the JIB can recognize an electrician who was once mentored and taught by another rather than an electrician who taught himself. Thank god for the JIB otherwise we will have no industry whatsoever!!!
 

rmc86uk

-
Arms
Think you need NVQ 2356 mate, to meet the JIb definition of a spark, then you would also meet the definition of approved!
Yes as as long as you have been a graded electrician for a minimum of two years and hold the 2391 certificate then you would become approved.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
S

Spark1979

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I always thought you had to have NVQ level 2 & 3 to be a JIB registered spark, I can't believe how many sparks haven't sat AM2 thought you had to have it as well as NVQ portfolio etc
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
I think they still want the am2 if you are under 21
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
exactly what do they know! they just refer your experience and quals to there peice of paper they have on there desk
 
G

Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Phoned the j I b up and told them my quals

2330 level 3
2392
2391
17th edition

They told me I was a level 1 trainee.....
So are you going to apply for your ECS card anyway ?
I would as its better than no card at all and it will be enough to get you onto building site jobs.
Personally i dont blame the JIB as they are just trying to uphold membership standards as an independant authority.
The real problems lie with City & Guilds whos constant tinkering and restructuring with electrical training is a shambles and the training providers are the only ones that benefit.
So get any card to get your foot in the door as it will make things alot easier and quicker to get re-graded at a later date.
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
To be honest it's something that I could take or leave the card but for the cost of one I thought it would be good to have in the wallet. I'm not to keen on site work....there is to many sites just having you under pressure for time having you lashing in cables the choping out fast fix boxes after its all plastered causing lost cables etc.....it's something I can't stand, so I am more domestic installations & testing so it wouldnt change my prospects......but saying that if you are graded by a national company and they can't grade me as a electrician then I am now asking myself....am I electrician!.....I have great knowledge of design, installing, inspection & good fault finder, I leave a neat job, NAPIT registered so I follow requirements fo notible work, but then again they say I'm a trainee. I don't know what other training I can do as the nvq3 is just a portfolio
 
D

DurhamSparky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
i have brought my opinions up about the JIB before!! Forth , Go and Multiply come to mind...!!
 
M

Mainman

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
As an employer, I find it is very difficult to assess someone who comes to me with all technical qualifications. I have no idea what they can do practically. It is the same for the JIB grading. They need as much information as possible of practical experience. Previous and current employers testimonials and NVQ 3.
Would you be happy for someone to drive if they have just passed their theory test?
 
Finish your dinner lads and you'll get the card. Simples!!!

Strange how the only people who slag the JIB off are either Electrical Trainee, mates, improver or 'technicians' from other occupations.

Like I said the JIB are the only ones keeping our industry serious and battling against what must be hundreds and hundreds of training centres.
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
Only issue i have with the JIB is that from reading many posts it seem's that someone with over 20 years of electrical experience has to do NVQ 3 to be called a sparks now, 20+ yrs ago NVQ just didn't exist to my knowledge.
 
A

Adam W

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
Lack of NVQ 3, i can never understand why people go sit the 2391 yet completley miss out the 2356 NVQ3 which is easier, must be a cost thing
Because it's a pain in the behind - you have to go around taking pictures of everything like some kind of trainspotter, and you have to cover a variety of different situations, some of which you might not come across on a regular basis.
Taking pictures of your work might be OK in certain situations, sites etc, but inappropriate in others, eg MOD sites, hospitals, schools.
 
Only issue i have with the JIB is that from reading many posts it seem's that someone with over 20 years of electrical experience has to do NVQ 3 to be called a sparks now, 20+ yrs ago NVQ just didn't exist to my knowledge.

Your not getting my point!!! If a spark has been working in this industry for 20 years and completed his apprenticeship at his time.... HE WILL BE GRADED AS AN ELECTRICIAN!!! Same for the 60's, 70's and so on. NVQ or not. You complete the recognised electrical apprenticeship at the time and you'll always be a graded spark!!
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
Or as alot of people do....take photos of others work....which just makes no sence
 

telectrix

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Your not getting my point!!! If a spark has been working in this industry for 20 years and completed his apprenticeship at his time.... HE WILL BE GRADED AS AN ELECTRICIAN!!! Same for the 60's, 70's and so on. NVQ or not. You complete the recognised electrical apprenticeship at the time and you'll always be a graded spark!!

not so. i obtained HND, Electrical Engineering in 1979. had 30 years exp.JIB classed me as trainee. bloody muppets.
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
Jebus...with all those '!!!' i get images of me old headmaster stood over me with cane in hand.....*hides*

:19:
 
P

p11jor

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Perfetic.....every single time I've had a electrical question telectrix has always had a answer for it and he's rated a trainee......

Who are the jib to rate you anyway, not higher than the guilds......
Anyone with abit of money behind them could start a scheme, advertise it to sites etc to say blah blah blah
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Perfetic.....every single time I've had a electrical question telectrix has always had a answer for it and he's rated a trainee......

Who are the jib to rate you anyway, not higher than the guilds......
Anyone with abit of money behind them could start a scheme, advertise it to sites etc to say blah blah blah
you have to remember the jib was set up to look after its jib member companies and employees,wages training quals etc for electrical contractors,they set the standard for that,if you done an apprenticeship through a jib co you got your card and its benefits,why does suddenly everyone want a jib card,if your self employed or dont work in contracting for jib co's you dont need a jib card,if you want to work for a jib co you might need one.
 
S

Swicade

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
People are calling for JIB to be the standard again....the present way JIB issue thier cards leaves alot of older sparks (due to not working/trainee for JIB firms) out on thier ear classed only as trainee's.

I'm self employed,did my time with a non JIB firm (not many firms around here are/were JIB)...if i now had to have a JIB card i'd be in the same boat as Teletrix.....Trainee...which is just wrong on so many levels.
 
not so. i obtained HND, Electrical Engineering in 1979. had 30 years exp.JIB classed me as trainee. bloody muppets.

No disrectful Tel, but was a HND in 1979 the recognized qualification needed to be a qualified electrician via an apprenticeship? such as the 2360, 2330 etc. This is what I mean!

And I know you know your stuff..... A lot more than me
 
My mate Rob is on the dole, can't find his certs(he's moved around a lot following his divorce)and can't afford to replace them, they told him if he can provide 10 years of work references they will consider what grade they will give him. I reckon he'll get something like trainee or labourer, what do you think guys?
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #29
had a chat with Leigh today about similar to this as i am currently doing the NVQ 3....he said it didn`t bother him as he was trading for himself and didn`t see the point in it....he did say though that if he went back onto sites for a company etc...he would get registered with em....
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #30
as far as i can remember if he got a job for a jib co and had all his certs they could then if they felt so apply for him by them to be graded as a jib electrcian,not certain if you could be graded as app elec before elec if he didnt do a jib apprenticeship,tho dont quote me on that..
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #31
anyway...got some fault finding to do tomorrow....lamps poping at a house....either crap lamps fitted ..or intermittant neutral-earth fault maybe....
 

telectrix

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
No disrectful Tel, but was a HND in 1979 the recognized qualification needed to be a qualified electrician via an apprenticeship? such as the 2360, 2330 etc. This is what I mean!

And I know you know your stuff..... A lot more than me
i take your point. the HND was biased more towards industrial design, far too much theory, little practical ( company i did the apprenticeship with was more concerned with using apps. to do menial shop floor work. ) . as for electrical installation, at the time i didn't have too much idea, but my mindset has always been on the practical side. so i studied the books, the theory, did a part time course, got the practical experience working with a gem of a guy, did a few years repairing appliances, TVs, installing alarms, CCTV, maybe an unconventional way in, but it worked for me.
 
M

Mainman

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #33
Only issue i have with the JIB is that from reading many posts it seem's that someone with over 20 years of electrical experience has to do NVQ 3 to be called a sparks now, 20+ yrs ago NVQ just didn't exist to my knowledge.
NVQ 3 has been around since the Eighties but changed in the 1990's putting the onus on the candidate to collect evidence.

My experience of many Colleges are that they are in many cases blinkered and only recognise the Apprenticeship - 2330, Keyskills, 2356 and AM2. As ou correctly point out, what about the guy's doing the job for years or those that have been trained in similar occupations such as the MOD? You can still become graded as a spark, just prove your competence to the JIB
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
as far as i can remember if he got a job for a jib co and had all his certs they could then if they felt so apply for him by them to be graded as a jib electrcian,not certain if you could be graded as app elec before elec if he didnt do a jib apprenticeship,tho dont quote me on that..
well the thing is i don`t know exactly how it works....there seems to be quite a few of these `JIB said this...said that` stories in here....
 
M

Mainman

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #35
My mate Rob is on the dole, can't find his certs(he's moved around a lot following his divorce)and can't afford to replace them, they told him if he can provide 10 years of work references they will consider what grade they will give him. I reckon he'll get something like trainee or labourer, what do you think guys?
Only if he can prove competence as a labourer:lol:
 
D

DurhamSparky

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #37
Finish your dinner lads and you'll get the card. Simples!!!

Strange how the only people who slag the JIB off are either Electrical Trainee, mates, improver or 'technicians' from other occupations.

Like I said the JIB are the only ones keeping our industry serious and battling against what must be hundreds and hundreds of training centres.
please clarify other occupations...??
 

ExArmy

-
Arms
i'm all for it, if they are hard to get then they are worth something. if they just handed gold cards out you'd have something else to moan about.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #41
well part of me thinks if you can do the job....then go for it....but also another part of me thinks that there needs to be some sort of grading system in place to provide an identifiable means of classing someone..(if that makes any sense?)
 
D

D80

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #42
JIB, amazed it's still going. They had a great chance to lead the industry at a time, and blew it. They could be rivalling the scams now, but don't see them in the picture.

My JIB Card expired about 4-5 years ago, don't see any need to renew it.
 

ExArmy

-
Arms
well part of me thinks if you can do the job....then go for it....but also another part of me thinks that there needs to be some sort of grading system in place to provide an identifiable means of classing someone..(if that makes any sense?)
yeah i agree there, if only it were that simple though. trouble is C&G change the courses every week, ELECS/NAPIT/NICEIC are all calling people "electricians" if you just pay them a fee (i know most of us are... but all you need is 17th and a years membership...) and the general non electrical public hears so much jargon they are just baffled and don't know whats what anymore
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #44
yeah i agree there, if only it were that simple though. trouble is C&G change the courses every week, ELECS/NAPIT/NICEIC are all calling people "electricians" if you just pay them a fee (i know most of us are... but all you need is 17th and a years membership...) and the general non electrical public hears so much jargon they are just baffled and don't know whats what anymore
well take the 2391 as an example...now, this course is a bit old school (closed book written exam) as opposed to the online guess that passes for exams now...but i heard it was going the same way....online GOLA...so is this true?.....and if so how is that going to help the industry?....provide a bit more `self esteem`?....
 
R

robsparky1975

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45
Im a Trainee as no NVQ3,ive got something to aim for then the elusive gold card,did even have a laugh with the fella at the JIB when i said an niceic approved firm made me their QSmi said surely a trainee shoudl not be checking/testing/approving others works.Silence on end of phone.I will do the nvq3 at some stage but £700 seems a rip off
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
Im a Trainee as no NVQ3,ive got something to aim for then the elusive gold card,did even have a laugh with the fella at the JIB when i said an niceic approved firm made me their QSmi said surely a trainee shoudl not be checking/testing/approving others works.Silence on end of phone.I will do the nvq3 at some stage but £700 seems a rip off
well you do what you like in life dont you....if self employed you could always set the cost against tax though as it would class as `investing in the business`...theres a local plumber round here that does that a lot....use courses to ofset tax....
 

ExArmy

-
Arms
my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.
but does it?....if you have the 2330 L2&3...together with some other stuff.....you could always say the NVQ3 is `keeping up with things`...or whatever.....it may be a blagg...but so what....seems all and sundry that think they`v reached the holy grail (westminster) can just cheat and decieve their way round.....now i know two wrongs dont make a right but.....
 

ExArmy

-
Arms
yeah i suppose you could just put it down, chance are nobody will notice. and if they do notice whats the worst that can happen, they say you can't offset that against tax oh well
 
S

sparks1973

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #50
yeah i suppose you could just put it down, chance are nobody will notice. and if they do notice whats the worst that can happen, they say you can't offset that against tax oh well
its about the level of it....yes...
 
H

highspark

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #51
With those qualifications and a letter from a previous employer stating at least 4 years experience you will get a gold card.

You ain't got the experience then you are just that a trainee.
 
S

SW1970

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #52
my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.
This is true. If you are a significant owner (a single or joint director of a ltd company, or a sole trader) training courses are not allowed as an expense if you do the training course and it is "obtaining a new skill". Something like the 17th update would most probably be accepted, but training that gives you a new skill would most probably not be accepted. Of course if you are paying for the training course of another employee who is not a significant owner in the business then that's different.
 
D

dichroic

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #53
So are you going to apply for your ECS card anyway ?
I would as its better than no card at all and it will be enough to get you onto building site jobs.
Personally i dont blame the JIB as they are just trying to uphold membership standards as an independant authority.
The real problems lie with City & Guilds whos constant tinkering and restructuring with electrical training is a shambles and the training providers are the only ones that benefit.
So get any card to get your foot in the door as it will make things alot easier and quicker to get re-graded at a later date.
Its absolutely nothing to do with City and Guilds tinkering with electrical training. Summit skills make the rules for electrical training and City and Guilds and EAL have to adjust the courses to suit the criteria.
 

ackbarthestar

-
Mentor
Arms
not so. i obtained HND, Electrical Engineering in 1979. had 30 years exp.JIB classed me as trainee. bloody muppets.
Lol, I can't help agreeing with you on this one.

However, I had an electrical engineer as one of my team who was previously employed as an Electrical Artificer on board one of those boats that fly the white ensign. His theoretical and practical knowledge was/is extensive. He was advised to grab the NVQ L3 as part of his service so that he could be fully credible when dealing with the trainees.

Its not so hard. Take a few photos, keep a diary of events and cross reference it all with a contents page, which incidentally most professionals do, and submit to the relevant assessing body. The only drawback is that your 'portfolio' needs to be verified by a suitably able assessor for validity, sufficiency, range and authenticity.
 
so what happens when you worked for instance at an electrical company for , lets say 4 1/2 years, then moved on and worked elsewhere for a year........then your previous employer (which a large number of them do) decides that as you are of no use to them anymore they will not give you a reference stating what you did and that you were there for over 4 years?.....are you then knackered in terms of applying for approved? I knew a spark who worked for a company for 7 years and they continually refused to sign off on him getting approved (along with a few other workers) and he was told by a little birdy that they refused to do it as they knew that he would grab a gold card in the end and leave to try and find better work/ more wages elsewhere.......I haven't spoken to him for 3 years now but I imagine he became a victim there...
 

ackbarthestar

-
Mentor
Arms
A very good point..
Unfortunately you can't legislate for peoples ignorance, insecurity and stupidity when not providing support for their employees unless an individual employee took legal action on the basis of discrimination to provide suitable references.
That will open a whole can of worms for the employee.
 
B

baldsparkies

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #57
Ok I have the City and Guilds 236 part 1 and 2 followed by 2 years in the evenings completing my C which was known as the technicians grading of the time.
This was all back in the late 70s and from start to finsh took 5 years and an apprentiship to complete. In fairness after 3 years and on completion of the part 2, I was seen within the industry as a qualified electrician. I also have the 2391 in inspection and testing along with 16th and 17th edition courses and upgrades.
I currently hold 2 JIB/ECS cards. 1 gold approved electrician. And 1 platinum Electrical site manager.
Have been a JIB sparks for more years than I care to remember.
I am 60 years old next year and started as an apprentice when I was 17 years old.

NOW MY POINT.
If I allowed my JIB cards to expire and had to re apply with my current experiance and qualifications, I doubt I would qualify for the same cards I have now. NVQ 3 simply didn't exist.

Most of the criteria is for current qualifications, so a long, time serving electrician wont meet that criteria, however a young lad fresh out of college, and with basic knowledge and experiance probably will.

And that my friends is why I like others my age are saddened by the way a trade that was once respected and operated by elite members who could prove that they had earned there competance throught training, experience, and qualifications.
Has now been reduced to all kinds of money grabbing schemes, operated by people who give no real thought for training or experience. And offer these courses to any Tom Dick or Harry, that has the time and money to complete them. (And I am in no way reffering to 3, 5 year and more time spans here) No sir, weeks or maybe months at best.

I use to be proud to call myself an Electrician.
In the old days, people use to look up to you, and the trade.
Doesn't mean much nowadays cus as said everyones doing it for a quick buck.
And just like the JIB, its not about experience, its about have you done our new courses, which in turn means youve handed over the cash so ok, money talks you can have yer card.
Very very sad.
 
S

SW1970

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #58
Balds, I work in a number of different industries and disciplines. It's not just sparking, it's the same in most trades and skills. With the exception of doctor, pilot, lawyer and accountant.
 
B

baldsparkies

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #59
Balds, I work in a number of different industries and disciplines. It's not just sparking, it's the same in most trades and skills. With the exception of doctor, pilot, lawyer and accountant.
Doctor ?? No. Lawyer ?? maybe. Accountant ?? another maybe.
Commercial Airline Pilot !! Oh yes.
If I could have my time over again, thats a job I would love to do. I have put quite a few hours in on single engine light aircraft, and enjoyed every minute. If I had my time over, an airline pilot is the way I would go. What a job, love it.
 
S

steelyduke

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #60
going back to original post,i have 2360 pt`s 1+2 2380,2391 and the part "p" . sent of to jib and got the card of an ancillary worker i.e. labourer because i dont have nvq 3
im a labourer.Rang them and they said if i sent a letter from previous employer saying sun shone out my arse they would give me trainee status (£18)
 
D

D E P Northeast

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #63
i had the same problem lucky for me i didnt need a jib card as i have 6 yes 6 cscs cards for diffrent things the jib is a con and a joke and sooner they see that not ever spark wants to work on big jobs like unis and water plants and job like that and some want to work on housing the better

for me why spend nearly 80 pound on jib when cscs is the same but cheaper ?

all i can say is your playing into there hands
 
G

Guest55

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #65
same old same old "JIB gave me bum grade so im gonna rant on the internet about it" lol.
if they gave gold cards to Electrical Trainee's no-one would want one would they ?
;-)
 
D

D E P Northeast

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #66
biff ive 2 gold cards i think its wrong you have to work on big jobs and get an nvq that costs over a grand i didnt have to get an nvq 3 to get my gas safe and id say gas is far worse that electrics
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #67
biff ive 2 gold cards i think its wrong you have to work on big jobs and get an nvq that costs over a grand i didnt have to get an nvq 3 to get my gas safe and id say gas is far worse that electrics
Hang on you have 6 CSCS cards and call people for playing into JIBs hand then the next minute you have 2 JIB cards :confused:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
S

sedgy34

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #68
Hang on you have 6 CSCS cards and call people for playing into JIBs hand then the next minute you have 2 JIB cards :confused:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Hes got a cloning machine lol
 
A

alarm man

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #69
Hang on you have 6 CSCS cards and call people for playing into JIBs hand then the next minute you have 2 JIB cards :confused:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
8 cards..ive only got 1,im going wrong somewhere..
 
P

Plonker 3

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #70
8 cards..ive only got 1,im going wrong somewhere..
I dont think it is you. Someone else seems to just enjoying spending money on a exam they see as pointless

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 

Des 56

-
Arms
Esteemed
The only time I have had 8 cards is playing Monopoly, they turned out to be a waste of money as well

What in the world would 8 cards cover,I'm struggling to understand
If one was for "safely unwrapping sandwiches at breakafast" level 2. I would still be pushed to name enough
 
SuperlecDirect - ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to JIB told me I wasn't a spark.....? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

SuperlecDirect - ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom