Mr new guy needs advice

[Gash1888]

Hi folks, looking for some advice. I have 16th edition BS7671:2001 which I sat in 2004, I have been working as a maintenance electrician on a large industrial plant ever since, I am now 30 and thinking of starting my own business as a sole trader electrician, domestic and commercial, 1st I know that 17th edition is required and I am looking for available courses at present but in the meantime what domestic electrical work can I carry out, if any?
2nd for inspection and testing is this covered within 17th edition or is it a separate certificate?
3rd would be looking to incorporate renewables instalations into my work, any courses worth doing that people could recommend?

Any help appreciated guys thanks in advance

 

[malcolmsanford]

Hi folks, looking for some advice. I have 16th edition BS7671:2001 which I sat in 2004, I have been working as a maintenance electrician on a large industrial plant ever since, I am now 30 and thinking of starting my own business as a sole trader electrician, domestic and commercial, 1st I know that 17th edition is required and I am looking for available courses at present but in the meantime what domestic electrical work can I carry out, if any?You can carry out any work you like domestically. You have the option if doing notifiable work of either contacting the local Building control before you start the work, or join a self certification scheme such as ELECSA/NICEIC/NAPIT, though the schemes would all want you to have the 17th edition

2nd for inspection and testing is this covered within 17th edition or is it a separate certificate? Again there is no compulsion to have any of the Testing certificates. If you go down the route of notifying via the LBC. If you join a scheme some do like you to take the C & G 2391-10 or now the 2394 or 2395 within a year

3rd would be looking to incorporate renewables instalations into my work, any courses worth doing that people could recommend? Because of the structuring for renewables there is a need to be certified before you can get accreditation. There is the C&G 2399, but there is also the NICEIC and others that do courses. I did mime through ECOSKIES

Any help appreciated guys thanks in advance

...............................................

 

[nick182]

hey fella..

are u registered with a competant person scheme? if not consider giving Niceic, napit or elecsa a ring.. To cover all domestic work you need to be regisitered with a competant person scheme which will make notifying work alot easier and cheaper for your customer. If you are not with a scheme provider you can only carry out basic work like changing equipment on a like for like basis and can only do certain small jobs. If you were however, to install an outside light you will have to notify the work to LABC which will cost varying on where you live.

2nd for inspection and testing is this covered within 17th edition or is it a separate certificate?. No the 2391 is a seperate cert which roughly goes for 4 days. Keep in mind that it has a very low pass rate and you will need to have a good understand of the type of systems you will be inspecting and testing. Guidence note 3 is highly recommended for anyone to undertake the 2391.. Also, I would try and get in quick for the 2391 as it is changing.. there is more info on that on this site.

3rd would be looking to incorporate renewables instalations into my work, any courses worth doing that people could recommend?
Trade skills 4 u offer a great course on renewables.. not sure on price but i can imagine it is quite expensive. They also have a good rep when it comes to training programs..

hope this helps

regards,
Nick

 

[Engineer54]

They also have a good rep when it comes to training programs..

Especially in chunning out fully trained, fully qualified, and experienced electricians in 5 Weeks!! lol!!!

 

[nick182]

in 5 weeks? i didnt know that! wth?????????????????????? Great, more cowboys is what this industry needs !!!

TS4U have recently signed up with Niceic aswell to do some sort of fast track service to register for competant person scheme..
Surely they would of looked at that 5 week course n got on their bike then?

i spose it all boils down to money at the end of the day... :/ shame really coz in the long run its just goin to create more problems w these 5 week short courses,,

unreal! :confused5:

 

[Plonker 3]

For get the Electrical Trainee there's 17 day DI package now, it gets bloody worse no wonder there is a lack of work out there at the minute.

Domestic Electrical Installer TS4U-17: Bronze

 

[lfcsparkycus]

trade skills 4 u do have a good reputation, yes they do offer 5 week courses but they also do c & g 2330 courses, 2391 courses, solar panel courses, pretty much any course you like. very knowledgeable guys train you up, many of them running their own electrical companies!

 

[malcolmsanford]

For get the Electrical Trainee there's 17 day DI package now, it gets bloody worse no wonder there is a lack of work out there at the minute.

Domestic Electrical Installer TS4U-17: Bronze

:whatchutalkingabout.........................you know if it wasn't so sad it would be funny this.

I see it is the bronze course, I wonder if you did the gold they might throw in HV and a Industrial/commercial as a 6 day bolt on, 3 days apiece ............HV day 1

"Now lads this is what is called an "earthing stick", basically you stick it into a power panel, jiggle it about a bit, and start your work. OK that is that covered next.............................."

 

[Plonker 3]

You laugh but there are different lenght courses not longer than 16 weeks before being let loose on the unsuspecting public.

Electrical Courses & Electrician Training from Trade Skills 4U

For a company with a few recommendations on here they do offer different length courses.

 

[nick182]

they wont think its that great once they quit their job to undertake full time training. Only to find out that they cant get a job

 

[Engineer54]

[h=1]

Domestic Electrical Installer: BronzeThis 17 day course includes all the training you'll need to be a qualified Domestic Electrical Installer. With this set of qualifications and skills you can be confident you will be competently equipped to pass your assessment and register with your domestic electrical installer scheme provider and begin undertaking work for your customers.
If you're new to Electrics and want to gain the qualifications quickly and intensively, then this is the perfect course.

Any company that can blatantly mislead students to this extent should be hung drawn and quartered!!! These people really do need to be stopped and stopped NOW!!!! And then you have Niceic supporting such programmes, ....well so much for all this so called safety, that they were so concerned about at this all party review on Part Pee ...Geezus...17 day electricians!! There gonna be really competent persons....

[/h]

 

[Engineer54]

trade skills 4 u do have a good reputation, yes they do offer 5 week courses but they also do c & g 2330 courses, 2391 courses, solar panel courses, pretty much any course you like. very knowledgeable guys train you up, many of them running their own electrical companies!

Please!!! Don't insult every fully qualified and experienced electrician on this forum!!!

 

[Wiredspark]

Gash - seen as we're way off topic lol are you a Celtic fan?

 

[nick182]

where are all the apprenticeships gone these days? thats what i would like to know..

 

[malcolmsanford]

I think I must have wasted 39 year and 150+ odd days of my life .................I could have done other things and then took a 17 day course and be competent................. all that BS I was fed as a young 16 yr old eh, 5 yr apprentice, 4 more years at night school for HNC and HND and then course after course for updating things ...............thousands of pounds spent, years wasted, and it could all be done in 17 days..............

I wonder if the barrel as finally had it's bottom scraped yet, or can we condense it into an afternoon in the local cafe and a few lads who know a bit

 

[Wiredspark]

I think I must have wasted 39 year and 150+ odd days of my life .................I could have done other things and then took a 17 day course and be competent................. all that BS I was fed as a young 16 yr old eh, 5 yr apprentice, 4 more years at night school for HNC and HND and then course after course for updating things ...............thousands of pounds spent, years wasted, and it could all be done in 17 days..............

I wonder if the barrel as finally had it's bottom scraped yet, or can we condense it into an afternoon in the local cafe and a few lads who know a bit

There must be an online faq you can read, that should do.

 

[Knobhead]

Just had a look at their three phase course. Oh dear………

 

[Gash1888]

Ok guys thanks for the replies, NICEIC wants 17th edition accrediting which is fine because this is in the pipeline anyway, as for work just now I live in Scotland and I think the part p is not applicable, however there is an equivalent which I would need to cover? LBC seems a bit pointless and timewaisting, I think I will wait unintil I am registered with NICEIC and have the 17th edition.

Thanks for the advice on solar PV courses also I like the look of trade skill 4 u.

Just for clarification, I have been in the electrical trade since 18, so for 12 year, namely industrial work, however the transition to domestic / commercial work should be manageable. I am not one for underestimating things and know it won't just be a walk in the park, but think realistically 6 month of study and training (17th ed, solar PV install, inspec & test) should set me in good stead. Thoughts?

 

[Gash1888]

How did you guess! Lol:clap:

 

[malcolmsanford]

This is an in house course and as such there are no formal entry requirements. However you should have experience of single phase installations, including the requirements for inspection and testing in order to complete this advanced course.

This course is ideal for existing domestic installers and also anyone contemplating doing the City & Guilds 2391, 2394, or 2395 qualifications or have little experience of three phase systems.


So in 18 days you can be let loose on a 100amp per phase industrial installation and be competent ..................

You know I'm going to have to leave this thread as I'm likely to get banned for what I really feel about these people ........................

 

[Wiredspark]

How did you guess! Lol:clap:

Can smell yeez a mile away

Just joking,

on a side note SOLAR PV???? becareful not to invest any monies into this that you are not entirely sure you will be able to recover Gash. This is a very unstable market at the moment and is not likely to be stable for a wee while yet.

 

[Knobhead]

You know I'm going to have to leave this thread as I'm likely to get banned for what I really feel about these people ........................

Yes be careful, they do sponsor this site.

On that note I’m keeping quiet.

 

[Gash1888]

Yeah I've done some research and noticed how the goverment are constantly cutting the FIT and the amount of years the FIT is available is being considered for a cut also (25 down to 20) however the price of installations and kit should also reduce making it more affordable, whether or not the uk has the mindset and inclination to "go green" is another thing.

Personaly I have installed 2 x 100 w panels, charge controller and leisure batt set up in my summerhouse which I use as an office and the solar takes care of the majority of my office needs.

Theres surely a market for these type of installs! ( even if it is only Celtic fans that can afford it! Lol, your lot need the money to bail yer club out

 

[Wiredspark]

Nice reply...ba5tard lol


For the off grid stuff, you don't need MCS accreditation. There is a market for off grid too.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Just had a look at their three phase course. Oh dear………

10 minutes should be long enough to test the candidates on that course.

I like the look of their 'Professional and friendly team' awaiting my call!

 

[lfcsparkycus]

Please!!! Don't insult every fully qualified and experienced electrician on this forum!!!

where"s the insult! i"m not saying that 17 day courses are good or attended one as they are a waste of money. but whats wrong with someone getting c & g 2330 under there belt, is that not what employers want? then go on to work as a mate and get 2391 as well. many of you bang on about doing the right thing, whats wrong with that?

 

[Engineer54]

where"s the insult! i"m not saying that 17 day courses are good or attended one as they are a waste of money. but whats wrong with someone getting c & g 2330 under there belt, is that not what employers want? then go on to work as a mate and get 2391 as well. many of you bang on about doing the right thing, whats wrong with that?

I take it, ...These are the people you gained your electrical training with!!

 

[nick182]

Yes be careful, they do sponsor this site.

On that note I’m keeping quiet.

But we DO like trade skills reallly

 

[Knobhead]

But we DO like trade skills reallly :iamwithstupid:

That little placard should be pointing at yourself.

 

[nick182]

to be fair though id rather trade skills than the others that are out there.. i just wish there were more apprenticeships about coz in my opinion thats the best road to go down to get ahead in this trade.. no if's or buts about it really..

 

[nick182]

oh no i didnt mean it like that im sorry.. i didnt realise, my bad.

 

[Gash1888]

I didn't intend this thread to turn into bitching session guys, merely looking for some advice for an electrician who's qualifications are a bit out of date, good luck to anyone who chooses to be an electrician no matter how they train, gain skills, what sector they choose, we're all here to learn and although I agree the correct training sorts the men from the boys, however apprenticeships are few and far between and these training courses are sometimes the only option people have! I was lucky enough to get an apprenticeship when I was young but also wouldn't diss these courses either as they help towards gaining knowledge required to one day becoming what we can class as a "qualified electrician"

No prejudice, just sitting on the fence, have an open mind

 

[lfcsparkycus]

I take it, ...These are the people you gained your electrical training with!!

yes i done c & g 2 & 3 with them

 

[Knobhead]

They should all have government funding withdrawn. The money can then be spent on providing apprentice trained electricians.

There’s a surfeit of domestic and a severe lack of industrial electricians. No you can’t step across the border with a 3 week course. Learning safe isolation is one thing, what you going to do after that to make a repair?

 

[Knobhead]

Yes, I'm in GRUMPY mode!

 

[nick182]

precisely.. this industry needs to hire more apprentice's and stop cramming in 4 years of work into 17 days..

 

[wade88]

I think I must have wasted 39 year and 150+ odd days of my life .................I could have done other things and then took a 17 day course and be competent................. all that BS I was fed as a young 16 yr old eh, 5 yr apprentice, 4 more years at night school for HNC and HND and then course after course for updating things ...............thousands of pounds spent, years wasted, and it could all be done in 17 days..............

I wonder if the barrel as finally had it's bottom scraped yet, or can we condense it into an afternoon in the local cafe and a few lads who know a bit

Certain promotional cereal boxes also offer a pamphlet on electrical safety, design and install after you have collected 6 tokens, once you recieve and have read the pamphlet there is a 10 question multiple choice test on beano characters and then you receive your electricians badge in the post....its by the best way to obtain all the quals you need. Nutritious too....

 

[Silly Sausage]

Gash, now look what you've started!

All this is the legacy of Government's 'desire' to get everyone skill trained and 50% of the population to be graduates (because it reduces unemployment figures...no, surely not?), which just ends up devaluing said qualifications.
I've nothing against that, everyone is entitled to education, but what is the point when the jobs aren't there to be filled by all these qualified people.
There must be hellava lot of angry & disillusioned people out there.
Unfortunately I can't think of an easy solution.

End of political rant for this year.

 

[telectrix]

End of political rant for this year.

really? you got nearly 8 months to go yet! :13:

 

[Silly Sausage]

End of political rant for this year.

really? you got nearly 8 months to go yet! :13:

I can assure you it is.
What's happened to Millwall Ken?