Need Advice - New Kitchen Rewire

[remedial]

lol. not really an assumption when your first post states "I am not a qualified sparky, but I will notify building control" or when you're asking multiple basic questions about all aspects of an installation. how many electricians have you "consulted" at this stage anyway? lets just hope you're not wasting poor Davids time.

 

[a-z electrics]

I have mentioned SPD's to some sparky's locally and I see the sense of them with the amount of electronics within households today, but one sparky told me SPD's are a pain in the ar** to install due to the complicated risk assessment paperwork involved, but reading the regs as a DIyer that I am, this is now compulsory on a single dwelling if you do not complete a risk assessment, am I correct Midwest.

I believe this to be correct.. there has to be a risk assessment in order to confirm whether thete are any life threatening implications.. if no risk assessment then an SPD must be fitted.

 

[Norah Nabino]

Intoelectrics... agree, I'm not a sparky, but feel that RCBO's can fit into design alongside RCD protected circuits for discrimination as you stated, especially the kitchen. Also agree with calling in an electrician to assess my install and signing off before energising system. Doing this for the enjoyment and knowledge...but safety is paramount!

Not worth the expense.

 

[naylorpd]

Oven and Induction Hob - DB 32A RCBO
Appliance's Total = 10.89kW- 47.34A using diversity and if maths correct

Diversity is an excuse to downrate a calculated cable size. Fundamentally it ----u-me-s that you don't use all of the appliances all of the time. But when you are cooking, in all likelihood that's exactly what you do.

I've seen newer 5-ring induction hobs rated up to 11kW, but ovens rated low enough to run off a 13A socket (if nothing else was using the same circuit). So if anything, I would uprate more than you have suggested, and consider putting the hob and oven on different circuits.

But I'm not an electrician, so read in conjunction with other posts.

 

[richy3333]

4 pages of utter nonsense. The original post asking for lots of advice and then keeps referencing electricians he knows. Ask them these questions, not us.

Screwfix and toolstation sell junk mainly. Cheap nasty carp that’s why they are cheap. BG, LAP etc. If their sooo into turning into a proper electrical wholesaler how come they don’t sell Hager? I’m guessing it’s because Hager don’t want to be associated with them?

My local Screwedfix told me I could have an Electrifried account if I was part P qualified. Looked at me totally blank when I pointed out it isn’t a qualification and in any event doesn’t exist in Scotland.

I can buy cable cheaper than screwedfix prices from REXEL, YESSS, CEF et al. I’m only a small business. If you’re not supporting and negotiating your prices with these wholesalers then something’s wrong.

 

[Zerax]

I believe this to be correct.. there has to be a risk assessment in order to confirm whether thete are any life threatening implications.. if no risk assessment then an SPD must be fitted.

However... the risk assessment is just a simple equation that takes a few minutes to calculate... and for domestic dwellings in an urban environment with underground cables, will most likely result in no SPD.

 

[dksanders]

More Sparks transferring to Screwfix and Toolstation daily, that's why the likes of Denman's and other Electrical wholesalers are closing branches. Quicker service, Guaranteed more items available in stock, most rates compare with wholesalers and all at the touch of an iPad.

Now I know you really don't know what you're talking about and shouldn't be allowed near the kitchen wiring and especially the CU change/upgrade. You're not qualified, don't know how to do this safely, aren't allowed to (but think it's OK because others do it), won't be testing, won't understand the results, can't have TPC, getting your 'Part P' won't make you competent or this any better.

I've fitted 1,000's of SWA glands, never had one with a 'copper compression gland', sure you're not mixing this your with your expertise of plumbing (glands), or what your Plumber told you'?

 

[Jjc]

Hi Guys
New to forum and enjoying reading the threads, all interesting, so..
Looking to re-wire my kitchen due to re-fit and some of you will be unhappy (understandibly) as I am not a qualified sparky, but I will notify building control and get the work certified and passed. This is simply an interest of mine and I enjoy it, I certainly don't intend killing myself or anyone else in the process and will get in local authorities for cert...so here goes, lot's of reading, bear with me, as I really can do with the help to clarify if I am wrong alltogether or on the right track being a diy'er.

I am now installing at home a built in oven 3.39kW, microwave 900w, induction hob 7.5kW, Fridgefreezer, under counter freezer, washing machine and Cooker hood 250w.

All appliances with 4 meters of DB and Clipped direct to wall behind open cavity, not insulated, 75mm cavity to address 50mm depth regs, don't intend to mechanically protect wiring, due to 75mm deep and RCD protected. Walls plasterboard lined for convenience, all wiring within prescribed zones!

So, would this be correct for regs... I have a
Wylex,14way Split Load DB, 2x 80A/30ma RCD's with the addition of potential seperated RCBO's below:

Oven and Induction Hob - DB 32A RCBO
Appliance's Total = 10.89kW- 47.34A using diversity and if maths correct:-
30% = 11.2A, 11.2A+10A= 21.2A total, so from DB using 6mm cable via 45A CCU down to Dual Cooker Outlet using 6mm cable, seperated and terminated at both appliance's using 6mm cable.

Fridgefreezer and Freezer - on separate 20A RCBO dedicated radials using 2.5mm cable via Switched FCU's down to flex outlet plates.

Washing Machine - I'm sure read somewhere regarding Nusiance tripping, not sure if 17th Edition about putting the likes of the washing machine again, on a dedicated curcuit, 20A RCBO using the usual method mentioned or, I could spur off rfc with Switched FCU down to flex outlet plate. This was when I was told I was over the top and pointless by a Sparky, always learning, even at 50.

Finally Microwave(900watt) and Hood(250watt) total 5A
Could these both appliances be powered via a junction box to separate FCU's and outlet plates, on 10A RCBO dedicated radial curcuit.

I have room for these dedicated radials and can keep the RCD protected Split Loads seperate, would this then be the making of a High Integrity Unit?
DP RCBO's or SP RCBO's, so many views on this, not sure.

If you have read this far, I commend you for your patients and appologise if my terminology is not adequate and certainly look forward to your comments and would really appreciate the feedback.

Ffc frightening

 

[GeorgeCooke]

Why all these switched FCUs and flex outlet plates? All these appliances have plugs fitted. So just put in sockets. Much easier when it comes to servicing or replacement.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

Ffc frightening[/QUOTE
Ring Main, Ring Circuit, Final Circuit or Ring Final Circuit was the intention, as repeatedly mentioned in my previous threads "RFC" so my apologies for the simple miss-type, obviously I had no intentions of frightening you.

 

[Stephen Paul Jones]

When I initially looked at this Forum, it states DIY Forum, help from the professionals, am I wrong? Yes, I do know some electricians to have a chat with, one electrician told me to take your Part P, which this forum has highlighted this Sparks's statement is incorrect, which I now understand "from this forum". I have also learned "from this forum
" that an SPD possibly needs to be installed, at least the tests and calcs done to establish if it is required, I have also learned that although Diversity is applied to establish the correct MCB and cable ratings, it might be better to separate the loads, or use 10mm instead of 6mm cable to future proofing. I have learned that using FCU's and Flex Outlets instead of plugs is again "a matter of opinion" as some Sparks prefer this method and some do not, as shown in this thread, I have learned a lot and why not, yes sometimes we do not write or put over exactly how we want to explain things and perhaps miss-type, not the end of the world! And... sometimes we might get something wrong, but, I have also learned that there are some really decent guys on here that will engage in conversation with a Diyer and share their knowledge and there are some sitting in the wings to knock and create a negative influence within a thread, we all have opinions and even you Sparks disagree frequently on the correct procedures and design of an electrical system. And finally.... "A Forum Mentor" to say the least, has to comment and really not in a professional manner either, only to argue a point about Screwfix, which again is a matter of opinion, as this thread shows his fellow Sparks agreeing with my "opinion." So thanks to the professional and decent guys for their help, which helps me understand more if the Spark I hire is a cowboy or a professional. You don't have to follow the sheep.... Just because the guy says he's a qualified Spark, it does not mean you put your faith in his knowledge and work to achieve a safe outcome, I would rather have an insight into the trade I hire, to make sure the job is done correctly. There are lots of TV series showing how these rogues "and qualified" put lives in danger everyday!!

 

[dksanders]

Your OP said you were doing the rewire yourself, not hiring an electrician (we're professional tradesmen, not Sparks).

We've trained and studied for many years, pay a lot of money to remain registered, buy and maintain expensive test gear and tools, etc. etc. in order to do the professional job that we do, safely.

Whilst we don't mind giving helpful advice to DIYers, we do object to being expected to give advise on a piece of work that should only be undertaken by a professional, enabling the DIYer to do an electrician out of a job (which could well be any one of this forum members), and especially to someone who patently believes he knows what he's talking about when in fact he doesn't.

There are often many ways to complete a task, different ways to design and implement a solution, all correct to the regulations yet if you do hire an electrician and he suggests a different approach to what has been discussed here, you'll be telling him he's wrong and a cowboy because you'll believe that on the basis of a few posts here, that you'll be more knowledgeable than him.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

A cowboy is a man who rounds up cattle on horseback.

 

[telectrix]

never seen cattle on a horse. unless it's some kind of cross breeding.

 

[remedial]

funny enough when i was young i really wanted to be a cowboy