No bonding, no work getting carried out?

[IAmSparkytus!]

Evening all,

My NIC inspector told me years ago "if there is no bonding in place, you're within your rights to switch off the electrical installation until works have been carried out!".... not sure if this is true?

When asked by a customer to carry out a job which you give a cost for before going to look at the works, whats your procedure if when you get to site there is no bonding where required?

Do you knock the juice off? Do you provide a quote to install bonding before carrying out any further works (this has been my go to)? Do you carry out the requested works and then advise and quote?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Depends how awkward it is getting some 10mm G/y to the relevant location

 

[westward10]

You have absolutely no right to isolate someone's electrics. Top tip whatever a scheme inspector advises you to do, do the opposite.

 

[Mikegh]

Depends what you're doing I guess

What do the regulations say

 

[Mikegh]

You have absolutely no right to isolate someone's electrics. Top tip whatever a scheme inspector advises you to do, do the opposite.

Surely he can make a Citizens Arrest though ?

 

[Dustydazzler]

You have absolutely no right to isolate someone's electrics. Top tip whatever a scheme inspector advises you to do, do the opposite.

About 15 years I heard an Niceic inspector tell an sparks to bond an aluminium door frame (no I’m not joking) as it was within close proximity of the meter cupboard and someone could touch the door frame while touching the meter…

 

[Vortigern]

Agree with no bonding no work, not so much with the isolate supply though!

 

[Dustydazzler]

What about old 6mm bonding ?

I think my parents house still has 6mm to the gas (I added 10mm to the water when I changed the board about 12 years ago)

 

[Mikegh]

There's a lot of variables when you enter an unknown installation ,some more important than others depending on the type of job you're doing assuming you don't know what the condition of of the installation is

If you're handed a verifiable piece of official paper proving that everything is in order and the installation is 100% safe well then you're safe to proceed with work subject to the usual caveats of upgrading the installation to take into consideration the new work

 

[Taylortwocities]

What about old 6mm bonding

6mm is OK for some supply types.

 

[loz2754]

give a cost for before going to look at the works

Never cost a job without checking the fundamentals are in place. If you've no choice, then include a clause in your quote/estimate to cover yourself.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

What about old 6mm bonding ?

I think my parents house still has 6mm to the gas (I added 10mm to the water when I changed the board about 12 years ago)

BPG4 lists this under "Items worthy of note that do not warrant a classification code", assuming no signs of thermal damage

 

[UNG]

Evening all,

My NIC inspector told me years ago "if there is no bonding in place, you're within your rights to switch off the electrical installation until works have been carried out!".... not sure if this is true?

When asked by a customer to carry out a job which you give a cost for before going to look at the works, whats your procedure if when you get to site there is no bonding where required?

Do you knock the juice off? Do you provide a quote to install bonding before carrying out any further works (this has been my go to)? Do you carry out the requested works and then advise and quote?

What if the installation doesn't need any bonding because the gas and water are plastic

 

[Zerax]

About 15 years I heard an Niceic inspector tell an sparks to bond an aluminium door frame (no I’m not joking)

No way, no way can I see an NICEIC inspector saying that !

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

What if the installation doesn't need any bonding because the gas and water are plastic

Then don't bond it...?

 

[UNG]

Then don't bond it...?

Exactly

 

[timhoward]

My NIC inspector told me years ago "if there is no bonding in place, you're within your rights to switch off the electrical installation until works have been carried out!

I think the main point here (leaving aside the fact it's twaddle) is if you arrive anywhere and find an unsafe situation for any reason, it's going to mean extra work for a customer who will generally be highly suspicious you are just after extra beer money.
The most helpful conversation in this case would be explaining what bonding is and why they will want it in non-technical terms. e.g. "If something goes wrong outside / next door, and you don't have bonding, then you can end up getting an electric shock off this pipe. Or a problem in your house could give them a shock next door. Or someone touching your outside tap can get a shock." (obviously that is simplified to a GCSE History basically-true-ish level)
If I can't convince them the extra work is in their interests then it's simple, no job, walk away. I don't want to ever work somewhere and leave a C2,C1 or FI behind. In really extreme cases if I've touched anything and could be accused of causing it I'd leave a danger notice behind and take photos.

 

[PEG]

We have done the "removal of services" debate before....

As a general rule of thumb...if you have not got the right to know if the home owner's gran is descending the dark cellar stairs,to check the freezer full of Kobi steaks....then....?

 

[Dartlec]

I actually rang the NICEIC helpline about this a while back to try and get clarity, though I'm not sure I did.

I had an installation where the water bonding wasn't accessible to verify at the clamp (believed to be buried in boxing in) - testing suggested it may be in place, but couldn't rule out boiler cross bonding without a lot of work.

The small job (MWC) I was doing was in a place where there were no radiators, pipes, or extraneous parts (on a wooden stair landing) so I took the view that it was not necessary to be 100% sure of bonding before completing it - The helpline's view seemed to be that no work should be done if bonding (when necessary) was not in place due to not being able to achieve ADS.

I'd perhaps have investigated further if I'd been working in a bathroom, so I think it's more down to a personal assessment of the risk involved in each circumstance than a hard fast rule.

 

[pc1966]

My worry with a lack of adequate bonding where it is required is the open PEN case and a fire starting as the 0.75mm CPC to the boiler or immersion heater tries to carry the neighbourhood's neutral current!

But as above, in some cases (non-conductive service pipes) it is not needed, or it might be done but you can't verify it as some muppet hid it in a non-obvious place.