No Certificate For New Electrics And Local Authority Demands

[TMess]

Thanks Nige. The NICEIC did summarise their complaint procedure to us this afternoon. Basically we need to write a letter to the spark, wait 7 days, then if we do not hear from him, formerly complain to them (the NICEIC), and they will then attempt at finding a solution. However, that currently seems more long winded than figuring out whether LABC need a cert in the first place, and if so, whether they can charge so much.

 

[Bradzz]

TMess WHO ARE YOU?

 

[SYKRAPS]

TMess,

The way I see it is that LBC want a certificate to cover work done in the worked on areas not a Part P certificate. If you got another sparky to adjust and test all of the newly installed electrical outlets and issue a minor works certificate this would suffice.

To answer an earlier question you asked a Minor Works Cert covers basically alterations and additions to existing circuits, an Electrical Installation Cert covers newly installed completely new circuits and an EICR is carried out on an installation to test its integrity and is for information about an installation and its state of repair which may result in either a satisfactory or unsatisfactory result.

Regards Nige.

 

[Bradzz]

could this be the section i was trying to show you TMess but when i looked back at it for some reason it changed, but i had a photo of it.

 

[TMess]

TMess,

The way I see it is that LBC want a certificate to cover work done in the worked on areas not a Part P certificate. If you got another sparky to adjust and test all of the newly installed electrical outlets and issue a minor works certificate this would suffice.

To answer an earlier question you asked a Minor Works Cert covers basically alterations and additions to existing circuits, an Electrical Installation Cert covers newly installed completely new circuits and an EICR is carried out on an installation to test its integrity and is for information about an installation and its state of repair which may result in either a satisfactory or unsatisfactory result.

Regards Nige.

Does a Minor Works Cert (MEWIC?) or an EIC get registered with the NICEIC who would then forward the registration to the LABC? Or is it merely a certificate with test results that gets written out by the installer and handed over? The LABC have stated a number of times that they check for work certificates 'online'.

 

[TMess]

View attachment 14568could this be the section i was trying to show you TMess but when i looked back at it for some reason it changed, but i had a photo of it.

Have a look at my reply with the updated Part P document on the previous page of this thread. You linked to the older Part P (before the 2010 amendments) which has different wording within paragraph 1.26 than the newer edition.

 

[Bradzz]

for some reason this is what is showing for the 2010 update, oh well.

 

[SYKRAPS]

Most Part P certificates are filed on-line but as for all other certification it comes direct from the installer and you don't have to be registered with bodies such as NICEIC to provide it, you can simply use photocopies of certificate examples from BS7671 aslong as you have a code and number system.

The certificate should be issued directly to the person who ordered the work to be done from the electricians carrying out te work.

 

[Bradzz]

The other thing is dont worry as the job is not complete yet so no certs need to go to LBC, why say you, well the job is not complete due to the fact the sparks has not yet issued you with the certificate, or the body to whom he is registerd with. and he has not said he is holding the cert back for any reasons has he. tell building control to go and do one.

 

[Swicade]

A bit of a work around the situation (some may say it's abit dodgey) but it may be possible to do as follows:

IF building control/LABC have no record at all of who did the original install (the guy who's done a runner) then if your new sparks is willing to test/inspect/sign off the install issueing a minor works certificate which you can then send a copy to LABC then alls good and LABC will be none the wiser.

Technicaly it's not the right thing to do as the installer should be the only one issueing the cert for the work (so i'm not in anyway suggesting this should become common practice) but circumstances have you abit screwed. Aslong as LABC dont know who the original sparks is then as far as they're concerned the new sparks IS the original sparks.If the new sparks is Part P and can certificate online then even better.

It's not right,it's not clever....but it is a work around the situation so you can get the job signed off by LABC (as i gather this is the main problem).....would however be interesting to know what actualy happens (if anything) with NIC*spits*EIC and if they do actualy chase the scarlet pumpernickel of a sparks done and give him a slapped wrist.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Three theads all on the same subject?
All could have been rolled in to one.

Aye ..... but it should keep Dan happy

 

[richy3333]

Yes. A call to NICEIC this afternoon confirmed he is 'still' registered.

If he is with the NICEIC then make an official complaint. That's partly why they exist and charge huge fees

 

[StuSpiers]

Just to throw this in the mix:

My own policy is to not issue certs until full payment has been received I also get all part-p certs sent to my address and send them on with any certs.

Did your sparky mention anything about that?

Regards.

 

[morph]

Just to throw this in the mix:

My own policy is to not issue certs until full payment has been received I also get all part-p certs sent to my address and send them on with any certs.

Did your sparky mention anything about that?

Regards.

ditto , always two sides to a story

 

[Octopus]

Question to T Mess:

Did the homeowners original planning consent include the electrics?
Did the sparky give the home owner any certifcates?

Sorry if I've missed these facts but the thread is long winded.

 

[Engineer54]

If he is with the NICEIC then make an official complaint. That's partly why they exist and charge huge fees

Oh dear, .....I think your going to be sadly disappointed if you really believe that any of these scheme providers, are going to do anything to help others. Be it it's members, or the members customers.... Now on the other hand, if an electrician is using the schemes logo illegally, ...then you will see some pronto action, but allas not on the customers behalf!! lol!!!

 

[telectrix]

think this whole thread is like the pics of that duchess whatever her title is, topless. making mountains out of molehills. get a local registered spark in th add an extra socket and give you a minor works cert. end of.

 

[TMess]

The other thing is dont worry as the job is not complete yet so no certs need to go to LBC, why say you, well the job is not complete due to the fact the sparks has not yet issued you with the certificate, or the body to whom he is registerd with. and he has not said he is holding the cert back for any reasons has he. tell building control to go and do one.

I don't follow. If LABC don't receive a certificate, then the entire job will not be signed off by them, which will result in one very unhappy customer and leaves our reputation on the line...

 

[TMess]

Just to throw this in the mix:

My own policy is to not issue certs until full payment has been received I also get all part-p certs sent to my address and send them on with any certs.

Did your sparky mention anything about that?

Regards.

He did not mention anything along these lines. On top of which we did agree payment post certification.

 

[TMess]

Question to T Mess:

Did the homeowners original planning consent include the electrics?
Did the sparky give the home owner any certifcates?

Sorry if I've missed these facts but the thread is long winded.

There was no original planning application, but a building control application which merely stated 'garage conversion'. Logic would state that any garage conversion would include an element of electrical work.
The homeowner has not received any certificates. They would have come to us first.

 

[TMess]

Quite a few of you have mentioned getting a minor works certificate. However, Building Control have always asked for a Part P certificate. Where do we legally stand in terms of refusing to give them a Part P certificate (because we can't in our current situation) and offering them a minor works certificate instead? What is the difference between the two certificates in the first place?

 

[tony mc]

The electrician will issue a either a Minor works which what yours is or a Electrical Instalation Certificate.

There is no such thing as a part P certificate.

As already stated if the work is notifiable then the elctricans scheme in your case the NICEIC will inform the LABC that the work has beed done as per the part P building regs !

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I would imagine that when they ask for a 'Part P' certificate, they are actually asking for a Building Regulations compliance Certificate.

 

[Guest55]

I don't follow. If LABC don't receive a certificate, then the entire job will not be signed off by them, which will result in one very unhappy customer and leaves our reputation on the line...

then just pay the damn fee if your customers satisfaction and company reputation is worth more than £400.
sometimes the path of least resistance is best if you dont want to tie up endless hours of hassle sorting this out.
then you can move on and learn for the next time you have to deal with the part p process.

 

[ruston]

A "part certificate " does not really exist. if you employ a part p registered electrician he is allowed to self certify his work to building control within 30 days of completion of the works. Building control will then sign the work off and issue the customer with a completion certificate. The spark does not need to send an EIc to building control as that goes to the person ordering the work.

The other route is to notify BC twenty four hours before work commences and pay a notification fee. BC may then decide to take copy of the certificate from a competent person or oversee the work themselves .ie first and second fix inspections. then on completion you will get a compliance certificate. This is not conclusive and the terminology may be incorrect because I'm tired lol.

It's taken so long to get this up on 3 you lot have said it all.

 

[Guitarist]

then just pay the damn fee if your customers satisfaction and company reputation is worth more than £400.
sometimes the path of least resistance is best if you dont want to tie up endless hours of hassle sorting this out.
then you can move on and learn for the next time you have to deal with the part p process.

Agree with you biff. I have already said that not having to pay the electrician should cover this, and many of us have explained that there is no such thing as a "part P certificate" issued by the sparky, even if the work is notifiable.
I can't believe this thread is still going....