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silva.foxx

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Chaps (and Gals)

As with all electrical forums there appears to be many members who are apparent Part P Police. I am not against this as we need to secure our trade.

What I'm getting at; sparks on this site, or others, who are not on the 'register' must surely carry out work on their own homes which is deemed notifiable. Albeit these sparks may have been doing this trade for years and may heve 2391 certification to boot.

Do these sparks go down the proper route or do they carry on regardless?

regards
s.f
 
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Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #2
If its in their own homes, i expect they may just get on with it and worry about it later.
 

Des 56

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Arms
Esteemed
The lack of enforcement of the ill thought out part p means that qualified electricians who have taken no part in this enforced nonesense, are at an advantage compared to the rest of us who have subscribed
It is debateable whether they or us are the idiots
Being un registered has not caused any restriction to practising electricians who have ignored this initiative
Up till now the registered electrician has seen no advantage whatso ever with the introduction of the legistlation,in fact quite the opposite is true, they are dis advantaged because of the extra cost of notification and annual fees etc,but hope that this will change,although progress is very slow
Part p police
This lack of enforcement which has been described and puts the registered spark at such a disadvantage is now being put on the shoulders of those disadvantaged sparks to complain/inform on breaches
Until this scheme is taken much more seriously by the councils,who at present have difficulty even being aware of the scheme, never mind enforcing its requirements,then there is no hope of it being succesfull
Time is running out for this pathetic atempt at regulation, or could that be money generation in the form of a hiddden stealth tax
 
6

62patrick

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Well said DES 56, I have been registered with the NICEIC from Jan 05, I moved last week to NICEIC AC,
When I had the thumbs up from the inspector he said any questions , well I just couldn’t resist saying that
I’ am fed up with unregistered people carrying out work, his comments was report them and if you think that no one is acting on it phone me its up to all of us to work together to stamp out unregistered work & workers. The very next day I was going to wire a cooker at an existing customers house, ( new kitchen being fitted ) when we arrived the kitchen fitter said ‘I’ am sorting the sockets out mate, my next comment was who are registered with mate, I’ am not I don’t need to be registered because I’ve been doing it for years and they know me, like stuff mate, the customer was standing in the back ground who said its best that the electrician does all the wiring. I should of let him carry on with it & tried out the local council to see how strong or week they are.
Sorry for the rant, but this stuff is getting on my…………….!!!!
 
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silva.foxx

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Thanks for the replies so far... I'm sure this is not a new or touchy subject! :rolleyes:

I know, well believe, I am suitably experienced/qualified to carry out my own install and test at my own home regardless of any LABC. I don't plan on moving from this gaff in the next 25 years so what they don't know won't hurt...yet if things go t!ts-up in the current '£ drown' then the house may be sold on to ordinary persons who'll need an electrical certifcate! - This I do not plan for.

I have recnetly moved into a dormer bungalow, 1968 build with wiring from that era with stranded T&E and BS3036 CU. I have 15 years exp in electricity + 17th + insp & test. As per another thread regarding JIB, etc.. I may not be applicable for qualification as an 'electrician' regardless of my indentured/NVQ3 industrial background. Maybe I'm being a little 'ahead of myself' (please tell me if so:eek:).

Should I really go and employ a spark, possibly just out of college, to come and rewire my home then test it?

I have been offered in the past some "red'n'black", but why should qualified sparks hide behind old cable colours?

I just find it a little amusing that these kitchen fitters are allowed, under Part P, to have their own little section where they conform to being a 'qualified' spark. What's in their scope; can they just add to or modify the kitchen circuit? Does this kitchen fitter become responsible for the whole installation now? Do they take on this responsibilty or is there something within their 'Part P' certification that detatches them from any ownership? (Note: I have nothing personal against kitchen fitters.)

Thanks so far

Regards
s.f
 
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Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
I think all of the schemes offer a defined scope membership, which means that kitchen fitters and the like can modify the circuits related to their business and notify.
 
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ezzzekiel

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
could argue that if its in your own house then its under the supervision of skilled/instructed persons
 
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sparkswillfly

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
if the goverment realy wanted to restrict tom dick and harry from installing electrics they would stop all the diy stores from selling consumer units and alike to unqualified customers
 

acvc

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Arms
Yeah that has shown to be possible. I spent six weeks in Western Australia December/January, and it's practically impossible to find even 6242Y for sale in the DIY stores, I was told by store staff that it's state policy and only going to get worse/better. So there's no reason why we can't do it here in UK too.
 
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kung

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
Agree with replies its a joke ! nothing more than a money making scam ! if your not compitant you wont pass exams etc and you do get assessed there as well ! i was in B & Q the other day and this worker in the electrical section was telling this couple who had no idea of how/if/when/what you get the jist about electrics and by the time they left he'd told them how to basically install a CU/shower/immer heater etc with no mention of building control or testing etc ! its a joke and they even got big boards up with installs so your gran could do it ! should be stopped ! its a joke ! anything to sell their goods ! the way i see it is FULLY QUALIFIED SPARKS should be exempt from this as ALL your work HAS to comply with bs7671 2008 ! i have nothing against part p and its good that there is somthing in place so stop these unregistered people working with electrics BUT this so called policing well thats a joke in itself ! better policing and tougher penalties thats whats needed but i think i will have more chance getting headbutted by the pope than that happening !
Regards
Ranting Kung.
(Whats new)
 
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Andy Smith

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
If you think that’s a joke then think about this.

A factory electrician can do anything he/she likes if they are deemed competent in a industrial panel. With 415v three phase very high currents AC and Yes DC good Ah (NOT) they don’t need part P and the usual requisite in 17th edition (which in most cases is totally irrelevant) to be employed as an electrician. If you work above 50v then you should be fully qualified full stop and be able to prove that you have a good track record. Electricity kills and it doesn’t have to be high voltage either.
 
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silva.foxx

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
If you think that’s a joke then think about this.

A factory electrician can do anything he/she likes if they are deemed competent in a industrial panel. With 415v three phase very high currents AC and Yes DC good Ah (NOT) they don’t need part P and the usual requisite in 17th edition (which in most cases is totally irrelevant) to be employed as an electrician.
Andy, can you elaborate on "...do anything he/she likes...in an industrial panel"?

I guess you've seen some of the shocking circuit modifications wired in in random colours with no markings and no schematics to boot! :eek: Rat's nest usually springs to mind.

Most sparks I have worked with have come through indentured apprenticeships with papers, plus have many years experience and knowledge of industry.

In my first role I worked alongside two former mining electricians who had been used to pulling large cables in the dark! They'd never seen some of our low voltages, yet were deemed fit to wire/troubleshoot panels. One of them I'd be hard-pushed to allow him to wire up the laces through the eyelets of my boots. He believed if you had a voltage between L-E then the thing should work!

I worked with one lad, who managed to blow a star-delta starter by just replacing some contacts! The same lad didn't know the difference between 24 volt ac and dc.

Apart from the few bad apples, most of the sparks I've worked with have been very competent!

What regs do Public Utility and HV electricians work to?


Regards
s.f
 
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pushrod

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
If you are in a Part P scheme can you certificate work that you do in your own home :confused:
 
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Andy Smith

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
In factory life, as a maintenance engineer. Its is often the case that the said person had done a fully indentured apprenticeship or NVQ as a mechanical engineer, and has also been on a two week electrical course. It seems that they are now looked upon as competent (and some are very good) by some employers, however a little knowledge is dangerous in the wrong hands. I personnel would not let some of them wire up a 1.5volt battery and lamp. Just strikes me as wrong that these people are allowed to get away with it. After all factories are run by the people, now possibly working on machinery that is not necessarily safe. Not much different than some having unprotected systems in your home except high voltage more current different frequencies and more people at risk at any given time.

Sorry missed the last bit off. We still work to 17th edtion etc. But not much applies to panels really.

Perhaps i should mention i did a four year apprenticeship in mechanical engineering, then backed it up with a further six doing electrical training. No one can learn another trade in a short time.
 
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sivoodoo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
You can buy handcuffs from a joke shop, maybe the part P police already have them :)
 

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