Periodic inspection

[domestelec]

Hi Guys,

Appreciate the comments, I am the engineer that carried out the EICR on this property. My doubts were raised over the the BS 4293 having overload protection, if the device did not have overload protection I would have no alternative but to give a code 1. BS 4293 were replaced with the BS EN 61008 standard and listed as an RCCB. Rather than just failing the board on these grounds I felt I should research it first. After researching it on the internet I found much conflicting detail due to the age of the devices. I have attempted to locate federal electric technical help but to no joy. I contacted the NICEIC technical helpline however they could not give details of specific units and I was to refer to the manufacture.This article by the IET states that a RCCB has no integral overload protection http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/15/insp-test-rcd.cfm . If anyone has any literature or information relating to this it would be much appreciated. I also understand the comments of the costing I quoted for changing the consumer unit, that is my choice given the extent of works already carried out and the simplicity of the install, given I already have the dead test values typed up on Amtech it is only a couple of hrs local work and screw fix offer dual RCD consumer units for £58.99.

Many Thanks

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi Guys,

Appreciate the comments, I am the engineer that carried out the EICR on this property. My doubts were raised over the the BS 4293 having overload protection, if the breakers did not have overload protection I would have no alternative but to give a code 1. BS 4293 were replaced with the BS EN 61008 standard and listed as an RCCB. Rather than just failing the board on these grounds I felt I should research it first. After researching it on the internet I found much conflicting detail due to the age of the devices. I have attempted to locate federal electric technical help but to no joy. I contacted the NICEIC technical helpline however they could not give details of specific units and I was to refer to the manufacture.This article by the IET states that a RCCB has no integral overload protection http://electrical.------.org/wiring-matters/15/insp-test-rcd.cfm . If anyone has any literature or information relating to this it would be much appreciated. I also understand the comments of the costing I quoted for changing the consumer unit, that is my choice given the extent of works already carried out and the simplicity of the install, given I already have the dead test values typed up on Amtech it is only a couple of hrs local work and screw fix offer dual RCD consumer units for £58.99.

Many Thanks

rite...i think i`v seen enough of this crud...
go back to college will you.....

 

[domestelec]

You'll have to excuse the terminology, I did try to edit prior to anyone seeing that, clearly not fast enough. I really would appreciate some serious advice.

 

[telectrix]

do these devices have an amperage rating on them, e.g. 15A, 30A etc.? if so, they're RCBOs and have O/L and S/C protection.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You'll have to excuse the terminology, I did try to edit prior to anyone seeing that, clearly not fast enough. I really would appreciate some serious advice.

no probs mate...
i talks tough but i kicks tougher...:grinningelf:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

do these devices have an amperage rating on them, e.g. 15A, 30A etc.? if so, they're RCBOs and have O/L and S/C protection.

but even so Tel...
a quick visual tells you what your dealing with...

 

[domestelec]

do these devices have an amperage rating on them, e.g. 15A, 30A etc.? if so, they're RCBOs and have O/L and S/C protection.

Thanks telectrix

I also thought that but a standard RCD also has an ampere rating Ie : In: 63 A, Ideltan: 30mA so I couldn't accept it on face value, the only thing i could go off was the BS number which leads me to believe it is an RCCB.

 

[oldtimer]

but even so Tel...
a quick visual tells you what your dealing with...

Yea but in this day and age of digital pics why is it hardly any of the posters attach one ?

 

[telectrix]

difficult to tell from the photo, but i can't imagine it was installed with no OCPDs for the circuits in question.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

difficult to tell from the photo, but i can't imagine it was installed with no OCPDs for the circuits in question.

yep...
only thing i would be concerned about here is overload....
as long as In of RCBOs to 4293 is good n all that lot...

 

[telectrix]

personally, i'd recommend replacing that CU. never know what hammering it's been subjected to over the years, if the sparks is happy to do it for a ton, then good luck to him. he'll be busy but never rich.

 

[domestelec]

I can't believe it either, I am trying to seek an answer. So far everything I have looked at points to an RCCB and I wish it didn't however I have to be certain before I can sign it off.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

personally, i'd recommend replacing that CU. never know what hammering it's been subjected to over the years, if the sparks is happy to do it for a ton, then good luck to him. he'll be busy but never rich.

why?


if its good for continued service....

 

[telectrix]

i did say recommend, not insist. it may be OK for continued service, but while we can test the RCD/s operation, we have no means of testing MCBs, and a failure of any part in the future would leave a poor sparks searching for replacements, whereas with a new CU, any component can usually be replaced from van stock.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i did say recommend, not insist. it may be OK for continued service, but while we can test the RCD/s operation, we have no means of testing MCBs, and a failure of any part in the future would leave a poor sparks searching for replacements, whereas with a new CU, any component can usually be replaced from van stock.

well i identify with this tel...
but its all about proving beyond any reasonable doubt that the install was good for continued service at the time the ECR was carried out....

 

[telectrix]

that's my point. how can anyone be sure that those old breakers are still capable of breaking at the correct value of overload.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

that's my point. how can anyone be sure that those old breakers are still capable of breaking at the correct value of overload.

but you could say that for any even recent install where they have been clearing loads of faults..
now, whats the PFC here?...thats the nut of it
wouldn`t you agree Tel....

 

[domestelec]

I again have spent more time today trying to find out more detail and I am getting the same results. BS 4293 is replaced with BS EN 61008 RCCB, Residual current circuit breaker without integral over current protection. On that basis I would have to give them a code 1. Be interesting to hear feedback regarding this decision.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I again have spent more time today trying to find out more detail and I am getting the same results. BS 4293 is replaced with BS EN 61008 RCCB, Residual current circuit breaker without integral over current protection. On that basis I would have to give them a code 1. Be interesting to hear feedback regarding this decision.

no...
have another look....then get back to us...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i think what you mean is the characteristics of the older type RCCBs....which in this case would be to BS4293....replaced with BSEN61008....
for RCBOs its 61009 you would be refering to...
and dont forget its 200mS at X1 for an RCD/RCBO to BS4293..
300ms for an RCD/RCBO to BSEN61008/61009...