RCBO Type for Bathroom Lighting

[G Westmorland]

Perhaps unwisely, I offered to source an RCBO for the spark who's coming to do a couple of small jobs in my bathroom:

1. Connect up an electric towel rail heater (IP65)

2. Replace the MCB for the bathroom lighting circuit with an RCBO, as a quick temporary fix to make the bathroom lighting a bit safer, as it's not IP rated. (The light over the bath is going to be removed, for safety, but the two others need to stay for now).

But I didn't realise that there are various types of RCBO. I see that type A is OK for tungsten lighting, but I can't find any info on what is best for lighting circuits these days as people use LED bulbs wherever possible.

What is type of RCBO is best to use theses days for lighting circuits that are wholly or at least mostly LED?

 

[westward10]

Can you show a pic of your consumer unit to see if rcbos are available for them.

 

[G Westmorland]

Can you show a pic of your consumer unit to see if rcbos are available for them.

It's OK, they are available thanks for checking. The CUs (3 - 1 per phase) are obsolete Tenby units, but Wylex RCBOs fit. I have one fitted on the circuit for my EV charger.

 

[Andy78]

It's OK, they are available thanks for checking. The CUs (3 - 1 per phase) are obsolete Tenby units, but Wylex RCBOs fit. I have one fitted on the circuit for my EV charger.

Regulation 536.4.203 states that only equipment deemed suitable by the manufacturer shall be used in consumer units.

 

[G Westmorland]

Regulation 536.4.203 states that only equipment deemed suitable by the manufacturer shall be used in consumer units.

Given that the manufacturer does not exist any more, there is no manufacturer to deem any equipment to be suitable or otherwise.

So not sure what you are proposing? A whole new C.U. so I can fit an additional RCBO??!

The Spark who fitted my car charger and the Wylex RCBO that it is connected to had no difficulty fitting it and there are discussions elsewhere on this forum about fitting Wylex and LeGrand RCBOs in a Tenby C.U. - during which no objections were raised.

As the existing one fits perfectly fine, and works and trip tests without problem, what could the objection be?

 

[westward10]

You've already decided it is a compatible fit so your electrician can advise you on Regulation requirements so the work is compliant.

 

[Andy78]

Given that the manufacturer does not exist any more, there is no manufacturer to deem any equipment to be suitable or otherwise.

So not sure what you are proposing? A whole new C.U. so I can fit an additional RCBO??!

The Spark who fitted my car charger and the Wylex RCBO that it is connected to had no difficulty fitting it and there are discussions elsewhere on this forum about fitting Wylex and LeGrand RCBOs in a Tenby C.U. - during which no objections were raised.

As the existing one fits perfectly fine, and works and trip tests without problem, what could the objection be?

The regulation I quoted is in the current edition of the wiring regulations and has only been in force since January this year. The regulation would ask you to gain written permission from all manufacturers for mixing brands in consumer units.
i.e. without the permission from Wylex the installer becomes the designer for the assembly and assumes responsibility in the absence of compliance with the standard for consumer units. this would need to be a recorded departure from the wiring regulations and noted as such on certification.

 

[westward10]

And of course a recorded departure must ensure no lesser safety than compliance with the Regulations. This is likely to require a risk assessment.

 

[G Westmorland]

You've already decided it is a compatible fit so your electrician can advise you on Regulation requirements so the work is compliant.

Thanks, yes.

I just want advice about what type (e.g. type A, Type B etc} of RCBO is suitable for lighting with LED bulbs fitted.

 

[westward10]

The new Wylex compact rcbo come in one rcd type.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks, yes.

I just want advice about what type (e.g. type A, Type B etc} of RCBO is suitable for lighting with LED bulbs fitted.

Wylex have produced this advice on RCBO type along with all other advice pertinent to compliance with the latest wiring regulations.

https://www.wylexreasons.co.uk/Content/pdf/Wylex bitesize BS7671-2018.pdf

 

[G Westmorland]

The regulation I quoted is in the current edition of the wiring regulations and has only been in force since January this year. The regulation would ask you to gain written permission from all manufacturers for mixing brands in consumer units.
i.e. without the permission from Wylex the installer becomes the designer for the assembly and assumes responsibility in the absence of compliance with the standard for consumer units. this would need to be a recorded departure from the wiring regulations and noted as such on certification.

Oh OK, thanks Andy and Westward10!

I just spoke to LeGrand, who were very helpful, and they have confirmed that they bought Tenby, and that the following part number is approved by them in my C.U.

606416

So I hope(!) that this solves my problem! Even though it is a lot more expensive!
Do you agree?

It's very hard to get tradesmen here in the wilds of the north, (and the good ones all have too much work most of the time) and as mine is only a small job, I'm not wanting to refer this back to the Spark to solve, in case they lose interest and don't actually come and do the job for me. It would be ironic if attempts to make our house safer were scotched by Regs.

If I did use another Wylex, how would the spark carry out the risk assessment? Doesn't that consist of simply signing off that there is no significant additional risk of using the Wylex, as it fits and tests OK?

P.S. Do the latest Regs mean that I also need an RCBO on the towel heater circuit, as it is a new device, but added onto an existing circuit?

 

[DPG]

Good to know that the device is recognised as suitable.

I thought you said the spark was already booked in to do the job (in your original post). Who's going to test it if not?

 

[G Westmorland]

Good to know that the device is recognised as suitable.

I thought you said the spark was already booked in to do the job (in your original post). Who's going to test it if not?

I have had him round to look, and am now waiting for a quote. He's not actually booked in yet.

I should maybe have said "who I hope will be coming", instead of "who's coming".

Hoping he will not be like the previous spark, who came round, seemed interested in the job, kept promising quotes and failed to provide any.

Or sometimes they give you a quote, and you ask them to do the work, but then you can never get them to actually come.

Happens a lot round here with all trades, to me and everyone else I talk to.

But as it sounds like you're wondering, I have no intention of doing the work myself - because I believe that installing a new item in a bathroom comes under part P, so I have to have a spark.

 

[DPG]

I have had him round to look, and am now waiting for a quote. He's not actually booked in yet.

I should maybe have said "who I hope will be coming", instead of "who's coming".

Hoping he will not be like the previous spark, who came round, seemed interested in the job, kept promising quotes and failed to provide any.

Or sometimes they give you a quote, and you ask them to do the work, but then you can never get them to actually come.

Happens a lot round here with all trades, to me and everyone else I talk to.

But as it sounds like you're wondering, I have no intention of doing the work myself - because I believe that installing a new item in a bathroom comes under part P, so I have to have a spark.

I was wondering that yes, based on the questions you were asking. It's a shame you've had bad experience of tradespeople, although I agree - there are some cowboys out there.

Maybe someone on here is near you?

 

[G Westmorland]

I was wondering that yes, based on the questions you were asking. It's a shame you've had bad experience of tradespeople, although I agree - there are some cowboys out there.

Maybe someone on here is near you?

I like to know my stuff as it helps me talk on an informed basis to tradespeople, and to assess whether they know their stuff or not. An it interests me too.

I wouldn't call them cowboys. It seems to happen with respected and recommended people. It seems to be supply and demand. Tradesmen seem to be in short supply and have more work than they need. But why they can't just have the decency to say "Sorry, not going to be able to fit your job in", rather than just ignoring all contact, I don't understand. But that is what very often happens.

Back to my questions:

- Do I need an RCBO on the circuit to which the towel rail will be added, for the latest regs?

- And would a risk assessment really just be a simple formality as I suggested?

 

[DPG]

RCD protection is required, yes.