Regulations for installing 5 new double sockets

[ben5010]

Hi,

would someone be so king in advising me on the current regulations in regards to installing 5 new sockets, must a new ring be run for this amount of new sockets or can spurs be taken off of existing sockets?
there are currently 2 sockets in the room at the moment.

Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Plonker 3]

Has it come to this. The most simple things to find in the regs and people really can not be bothered to look in it too find out?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WayneL]

You can do either - but how you wire it is the least of your worries.

Do you know the current requirements of the wiring regulations and how to apply them.

Do you know what tests will be required once you've installed your new sockets and how to interpret the results.

Not as simple as you're making out, is it?

 

[shagbite]

1 spur off 1 socket - unless they're fused.
new sockets on a ring - nothing wrong with that.

 

[SafetyFirst]

What 'room' is it? Living room in a house?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hello and :welcome2:

(Geordie's post count is coming along nicely )

 

[derek preece]

Have you checked Part P of the Building Regulations to find out whether the work is notifiable to Local Authority Building Control? You risk invalidating your home insurance if it is and you don't use an electrician who is a member of a competent persons scheme or pay to notify it yourself.

 

[ben5010]

Ok, this is not something I am planning to do myself so that is not an issue. I just need to know if it is a requirement to run a new ring if adding that many sockets or if it is possible to do that many spurs from the existing sockets.

 

[MDJ]

Hi,

would someone be so king in advising me on the current regulations in regards to installing 5 new sockets, must a new ring be run for this amount of new sockets or can spurs be taken off of existing sockets?
there are currently 2 sockets in the room at the moment.

Any help would be much appreciated

Sounds like you have had a spark around, he has looked at the existing 2 sockets and deemed them not adequate to install 5 new sockets from them, I suspect he has suggested a new ring main and you do not like the costs he suggested??????????????????

 

[ben5010]

Sounds like you have had a spark around, he has looked at the existing 2 sockets and deemed them not adequate to install 5 new sockets from them, I suspect he has suggested a new ring main and you do not like the costs he suggested??????????????????

Yes, but it wasn't about the cost of the work,
But the fact that I was charged for the privilege of him telling me he can't do the job I instructed initially, I'm trying to find out if this guy just said he couldn't do the job because he could make a bit more from the job. Being as soon as he walked in he said instantly it would need a new ring ran for the new sockets, surely if it was so straight forward to say that it needed a new ring it could of been something they should of asked initially over the phone on the first quote?

 

[Octopus]

Yes, but it wasn't about the cost of the work,
But the fact that I was charged for the privilege of him telling me he can't do the job I instructed initially, I'm trying to find out if this guy just said he couldn't do the job because he could make a bit more from the job. Being as soon as he walked in he said instantly it would need a new ring ran for the new sockets, surely if it was so straight forward to say that it needed a new ring it could of been something they should of asked initially over the phone on the first quote?

Not sure I understand the point you are making here. Are you saying that you were charged for no work being done?

 

[ben5010]

Not sure I understand the point you are making here. Are you saying that you were charged for no work being done?

Correct, they claim that because the work was booked and then not completed a cancellation fee applies, but I find that unfair because I think they could of told me over the phone what the job could potentially involve. In which case it would not of been booked with them.

 

[Octopus]

Correct, they claim that because the work was booked and then not completed a cancellation fee applies, but I find that unfair because I think they could of told me over the phone what the job could potentially involve. In which case it would not of been booked with them.

Have they made this claim in writing? was it part of their T's and C's? - if its no and no I'd politely tell them you're not paying - they are trying it on.

A word of guidance, ALWAYS get the trades person round to access the work - anyone quoting over the phone can't be that good. I never quote over the phone.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Hi Ben welcome to the forum.

It is impossible to 2nd guess what has happened here with regards to your job. Can I ask are these 5 extra sockets for general use or do you have a specific job for them.

To be honest if they are for general use I would have advised that you rather than spurring off of sockets, but to try and incorporate them in an already existing ring circuit, if that is what you have.

If you had an intended use for them and it was a low load situation then I may have advised that you spur off of one of your ring sockets in a fused unit and run the 5 sockets of a 13amp fuse.

The above 2 suggestions are open to loads of interpretations to be honest

Is there an existing Ring circuit
Is it capable of adding 5 extra sockets
Would trying to extend it cause civil problems, ie decorating etc
Would it be more cost effective to run a new circuit be it ring or radial

The list could go on and on

 

[Clink]

As with all things "it depends" and what seems like the simplest question can be quite complex! It depends on things like the state of your exisiting wiring, the protective device on the ring, the number of sockets already on the ring, where you want the new sockets and also what mess and disruption you are prepared to put up with! There are a number of options, as has already been said if the existing wiring is OK you can put in 1 unfused spur from each existing socket or you could put in 5 fused spurs. Alternatively you could extend the ring to include the 5 new sockets or as your previous electrician quoted put in a new ring, which may be the best option if this is for a new room such as a kitchen. Sorry I can't be more helpful without a looksee.

 

[ben5010]

Hi Ben welcome to the forum.

It is impossible to 2nd guess what has happened here with regards to your job. Can I ask are these 5 extra sockets for general use or do you have a specific job for them.

To be honest if they are for general use I would have advised that you rather than spurring off of sockets, but to try and incorporate them in an already existing ring circuit, if that is what you have.

If you had an intended use for them and it was a low load situation then I may have advised that you spur off of one of your ring sockets in a fused unit and run the 5 sockets of a 13amp fuse.

The above 2 suggestions are open to loads of interpretations to be honest

Is there an existing Ring circuit
Is it capable of adding 5 extra sockets
Would trying to extend it cause civil problems, ie decorating etc
Would it be more cost effective to run a new circuit be it ring or radial

The list could go on and on

These sockets were to be used in a kitchen, the place was being renovated at the time so it was easy to access anything if they had asked me questions about the ring etc as the floorboards were up, it just seems weird to me that he managed to tell me if needs a ring without any sort of testing, surely that's something I could of done over the phone for a correct quote?

 

[malcolmsanford]

Ahhhhhhhh there is some light now.

Often because of the loads that can be utilized in a kitchen, kettles, washing machines dishwashers etc it is quite a modern practice to have a dedicated ring for the kitchen alone.

So I would say that he is offering you perhaps sound advice

 

[telectrix]

nevertheless, any sparks worthy of the name should not quote for such a job over the phone. as malcolm says, loading in a kitchen is quite heavy, so he should have surveyed the job before quoting. i know i would.

 

[lauriehurman]

Hi Ben

The regs do not restrict the number of sockets on a ring, what they restrict is the floor area that the ring can serve. If your 5 new sockets are in the same room as the original 2 then the floor area has not changed. The thinking is that you are not going to put 5 new 3KW heaters in the same floor area so the current draw will still be safe.

Laurie
P.S. sorry didn't read the bit about it being a kitchen, that does change things.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Laurie are you mixing up the OSG with the regs, there is no floor area stipulation in the actually regulations mate

Even in Appendix 15, which is informative and not normative, it gives a maximum suggested area of 100 sq mt, but even that is a maximum suggestion and providing you take into account volt drop can be bigger

Minimum area, there isn't one