Sisters rented uni accomodation.....

[keith915]

Just visiting the little sister. Noticed a 'UK Gas Safety Certificate' wedged behind the programmer. Had a look and looks like it was tested back in november. In the 'defects found/comments' box he's put "no earth bonding to gas meter". Went to check and you guesses it, still no main bonding in place.

Anyway I'm not happy and will be having it out with the letting agents in the morning. My question is, should the plumber have passed the gas installation without the 10mm bond in the place?! I thought under their regulations they also had an obligation to bond the incomer (albeit before it comes into the property... the source of many past arguments!).

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Perhaps the gas is bonded where it enters the building?

 

[keith915]

Have checked already. No bonding to the gas whatsoever.

 

[tonys]

That's what Gas Safe Engineers leaves behind if they have carried out any work and notice any non compliance's but its not down to them to rectify main bonding.

 

[keith915]

That's what Gas Safe Engineers leaves behind if they have carried out any work and notice any non compliance's but its not down to them to rectify main bonding.

Perhaps not down to him to rectify, but should he have passed the installation without it?

 

[tonys]

Perhaps not down to him to rectify, but should he have passed the installation without it?

My brother is Gas Safe and he leaves warning notices for the same sort of things, its not in their remit to correct electrical bonding and they leave the warning to cover themselves, their concern is the Gas Safety side of things. If a boiler for example is dangerous through non compliance they have the law behind then to shut it off, but sadly as you know its the not case with electrical.

 

[nickblake]

What you should do is ask for a copy of the periodic inspection report , as this is required for every change of tenant , and you are quite entitled to it

 

[tonys]

What you should do is ask for a copy of the periodic inspection report , as this is required for every change of tenant , and you are quite entitled to it

The report in question is a Gas Safe one and who says it law for a PIR to be carried out as above ?

 

[keith915]

Not sure a PIR on change of occupancy is statutory, I know its stated in GN3 as an example. I only query the pass/fail of the gas installation because why have plumbers moaned for years that the main bonding be outside of the property in the gas meter cupboard rather than within 600mm inside the property. I presumed They must have a specific regulation backing up their forceful opinion?

 

[tonys]

Not sure a PIR on change of occupancy is statutory No its Not, I know its stated in GN3 as an example. I only query the pass/fail of the gas installation because why have plumbers moaned for years that the main bonding be outside of the property in the gas meter cupboard Not a problem imo rather than within 600mm inside the property. I presumed They must have a specific regulation backing up their forceful opinion?

They do not know BS7671 unless they are part p as well.

 

[nickblake]

Why do landlords need to complete an electrical inspection?
There are two main Acts of Parliament that impose a statutory duty on landlords
with respect to the safety of electrical equipment:
1. The Consumer Protection Act 1987
2. The Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974
The Consumer Protection Act affects all persons who let property in the course of
their business because it defines them as "suppliers", i.e. they are supplying goods
to the tenant. There are several items of secondary legislation under the umbrella of
the Consumer protection Act which are directly relevant to the supply of electrical
goods, including:
1. The Low Voltage Electrical Equipment Regulations 1989
2. The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994
3. The General Product Safety Regulations 1994
4. The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994
In essence, these regulations impose a duty on landlords to ensure that all
electrical equipment supplied by them is safe for use by the tenant. The Consumer
Protection Act provides a defence of 'due diligence', i.e. a landlord can defend a
contravention of the Act if he can demonstrate that he took reasonable steps to
avoid committing the offence.
sorry should have been reccomended not required but the above is mainly equipment but the equipment is dangerouse if the installation is so realistically the installation is covered by above ,i never said there is a law but in general terms should be.​

 

[PC Electrics]

I don't understand this either. the plumbers I work with panic like crazy if they go to a boiler swap or major work and the bonding isn't up to scratch. Apparently GS can pull them up for not having it rectified.

yet they can issue a GS Certifcate with defective bonding as nothing more than a comment.

The two things seem contradictory to me and no-one has ever given me a satisfactory reason why this seems to be so.

Footnote: I've just issued a "unsafe installation report" on a rented property where one of the items was no gas bonding. the agents pulled out the last two years gas certs. Last years said nowt about it, but the two year old one had it as a comment, yet no action. Crazy!

 

[tonys]

Nick

It does not state Periodic Test and Inspection, if the premises are kept maintained and a safe condition then why does it need a PIR ?

 

[alanl]

No, as stated above, it is not a requirement to have an inspection of any electrical installation in a rented building. However, all electrical installations,and supplied appliances must be safe. To comply fully, some Landlords get a PIR/safety report every year.

As for gas bonding. My mate is Gassafe, and will not work on any gas installation without the bonding being in place. He has called me a few times to fit a bond, in one house, just a 6 inch link between, a pipe and the adjacent meter - the installed bonding was on the wrong side of the meter, it should be after the meter, not before.
Alan.

 

[nickblake]

Nick

It does not state Periodic Test and Inspection, if the premises are kept maintained and a safe condition then why does it need a PIR ?

Nope it does not but my point is it should , over the past few years i have been called out to unsafe premisis 4 of which were issued danger notifications the examples where : a woman blown across the bathroom having recieved a sever electric shock , 1361 fuses with covers removed with wire wrapped round fuses , incorrectly installed main earth installed to an unused earth block on the side of a DNO cut out so no earth to house at all , 3 incomming supplys in different installations with the incorrect polarity , all light switches removed and exposed live wires hanging out ,installation wire in perished black rubber, no cpc's in light switches all metal clad clight fittings and switches ,broken sockets with exposed terminals , broken light fittings , extension leads under carpets wiring in 2 core speaker wire (3 students died in a house fire cause by the exact same thing) ,shower with damaged top exposing live terminals , light fitting GU 10 with lamp removed above bath, most of the above were found during routine inspections after change of occupancy obviosly some where not ,that is why they need to be inspected not many land lords are on the ball

 

[accordfire]

Difficult issue. It is out of remit for a gas safe engineer to attempt to fit a bonding connection, as he is (usually) not also an electrician.

There is NO LAW at all which enforces a PIR on change of tenancy - that's simply good practice, and a recommendation but not law.

IMO - should the Gas Safe guy find there is no bonding to the incoming gas, or on the boiler (most of which are connected either via a three pin plug top or into a wiring centre via a spur or 20A DP switch will have an earth reference.

Certainly, the fault will lie with the landlord, who should be aware of the importance of such a connection, and should see to it with haste. As to why it was not reported on the EIC - or PIR when he bought the property?? There is an argument there.

That argument is that it is UNLIKELY that the landlord has taken ALL REASONABLE STEPS to ensure the safety of his tenants whilst in his property. In order to establish he has done so, he would be required to produce at least one of either EIC, or a PIR less than five years old. Arguably, he needs also to satisfy himself at the outset of each tenancy agreement that he has, similarly, taken all REASONABLE steps to ensure tenant safety. It would seem that at some level he has NOT, and therefore, would probably be liable if his tenant was electrocuted as a result of touching an energised gas pipe.

Alternatively, he would have to prove that he DID have an electrician attend, who had confirmed the installation safe - most usually by means of a PIR. If he has a PIR and the missing bonding is not noted on there, then the electrician can be considered liable for either not doing his job properly, or for failing to identify and notify the landlord of a potentially dangerous installation.

If the PIR has been done, and also DOES note the missing bonding, the onus once again falls on the landlord, but ALL OF THIS only applies if something actually happens which puts tenant safety at risk. That, IMO is where the whole thing falls down.

I've said before that issue of a liability insurance cert should depend upon issue of a correctly completed Gas Safety, Electrical Safety and Water safety report. I still see no reason why that cannot be the case. Change of tenancy should result in minor inspection reports, which carry out and report visual, and essential functional changes, with a full report being compiled annually, for issue of the insurance cert.

We are, sadly, a long way from that.

 

[grantr37]

A lot of occupants will try their hand at doing diy electrical works without having a clue what they are playing about with, they vandalise properties, and a lot of landlords will do it themselves as well and make a right mess of it.......I have seen a house with the carpets lifted just after it was bought, apparently it used to be a council house(bought and sold a few times after the first person had it off the council) and had supposedly been last rewired in the mid 1990s before the first owners dad bought it for them from the council....there were twin and earth through the whole property that were in channels in the floor covered only by carpet or Linolium, somebody had used a Router and a chisel by the looks of it, carved out channels into the chip board flooring and shoved it in, taking it up behind the skirting and into sockets, and using floor to ceiling plastic adhesive mini trunking for the lights and light switches where it was poked into the loft and run along to round fast fix plastic boxes holding up the light pendants.....