So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something like

[baldsparkies]

Customer
Hi,
You fitted a consumer unit for us about 10 months ago.
You
Yes that's right, how can I help ?
Customer
Well the thing is I have just been browsing websites, and I have found the consumer unit you fitted is no longer compliant.
You
Yes there are new regulations concerning the materials used, but don't worry because it was compliant at the time of installation.
Customer
Well I am worried, because its not just a matter of a change in regulations is it !!
You
What do you mean ?
Customer
Well the regulations have been changed due to a potential fire hazard with the consumer unit you installed.
Apparently the materials used are not considered as non combustible.
I therefore feel I have been left with a consumer unit that is constructed of sub standard materials and from what I read a potential fire hazard in my home.
To be honest, I feel they should be re called and replaced with the new all metal units free of charge, by you.
And that it's up to you as the registered installer to seek compensation from the manufacturer or whoever you feel is responsible.
When can you come and replace the sub standard unit please, as I don't want a potential fire hazard left in my home.
You
And this is the bit for your thoughts and comments lads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

me: mr. X. there's no need to worry. these all metal consumer units have been introduced to combat the risk of fire from a poorly installed unit. as you unit was correctly installed by a competent electrician, the risk of fire is minimal, so therefore i decline your request to remove a perfectly reliable piece of kit based on the knee-jerk reaction of a bunch of fat-heads who themselves created the situation in the first place with Electrical Trainee courses.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXfiSU_wqE

 

[snowhead]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

And that it's up to you as the registered installer to seek compensation from the manufacturer or whoever you feel is responsible.
When can you come and replace the sub standard unit please, as I don't want a potential fire hazard left in my home.
You
And this is the bit for your thoughts and comments lads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answer;
The new regulations are not yet in force, January 2016; BEAMA clarifies the new consumer unit regulation in BS 7671:2008 Amendment 3 | Voltimum UK
I won't be replacing it.
If you feel it's substandard, YOU contact the manufacturer, if they agree with you that it should be replaced and are prepared to supply YOU with a new one, then I will come and replace it free of charge.

See also section 4; http://www.niceic.com/Uploads/File1950.pdf

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

Answer;
I won't be replacing it.
If you feel it's substandard, YOU contact the manufacturer, if they agree with you that it should be replaced and are prepared to supply YOU with a new one, then I will come and replace it at my normal hourly rate

corrected that for you, mate. no charge.

 

[snowhead]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

corrected that for you, mate. no charge.

No definitely FREE.
No manufacturer will agree to replacements and neither will any Court.

 

[trev]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

The likelyhood of this happening is zero. How many customers of yours have the first clue that electrical regulations even exist, never mind the fact they get updated from time to time.
I do get your point though but it's probably worth mentioning that when the 17th was introduced I didn't get a single call about non compliant CUs installed to the 16th. There were circuits which were not RCD protected! Gasp! Shock! Horror!

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

The likelyhood of this happening is zero. How many customers of yours have the first clue that electrical regulations even exist, never mind the fact they get updated from time to time.
I do get your point though but it's probably worth mentioning that when the 17th was introduced I didn't get a single call about non compliant CUs installed to the 16th. There were circuits which were not RCD protected! Gasp! Shock! Horror!

and how many of those have burst into flames since installed up to 24 years ago?

 

[trev]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

None of mine have Tel, I'd put money on yours not bursting into flames either. (Maybe nicked for the weigh in but no flames)

 

[RyanCheetham]

Utter madness! On a side note Electrifix are offering LAP boards at a decent price which they claim are compliant for the new ammendment. They look to me like a cheaper version of Hager MCBs, any one fitted one yet?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

Utter madness! On a side note Electrifix are offering LAP boards at a decent price which they claim are compliant for the new ammendment. They look to me like a cheaper version of Hager MCBs, any one fitted one yet?

Lap=cr@p and I emailed BEAMA about screwfix claiming they was compliant and they emailed be back saying they are not.

 

[RyanCheetham]

Cheers for the heads up, shall give them a wide berth

 

[123]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

Lap=cr@p and I emailed BEAMA about screwfix claiming they was compliant and they emailed be back saying they are not.

What's it got to do with BEAMA? Have they tested this board to say its not compliant with BS 61439-3?

If they have, and its not...would expect to see trading standards involved tbh!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

What's it got to do with BEAMA? Have they tested this board to say its not compliant with BS 61439-3?

If they have, and its not...would expect to see trading standards involved tbh!

What we do

BEAMA and LFB have seemed to have influenced this new reg considerably.

They have said even though it may be compliant with BS61439-3 ABS fire retardant material is not non combustible.

 

[Breeze]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

Customer
Hi,
You fitted a consumer unit for us about 10 months ago.
You
Yes that's right, how can I help ?
Customer
Well the thing is I have just been browsing websites, and I have found the consumer unit you fitted is no longer compliant.
You
Yes there are new regulations concerning the materials used, but don't worry because it was compliant at the time of installation.
Customer
Well I am worried, because its not just a matter of a change in regulations is it !!
You
What do you mean ?
Customer
Well the regulations have been changed due to a potential fire hazard with the consumer unit you installed.
Apparently the materials used are not considered as non combustible.
I therefore feel I have been left with a consumer unit that is constructed of sub standard materials and from what I read a potential fire hazard in my home.
To be honest, I feel they should be re called and replaced with the new all metal units free of charge, by you.
And that it's up to you as the registered installer to seek compensation from the manufacturer or whoever you feel is responsible.
When can you come and replace the sub standard unit please, as I don't want a potential fire hazard left in my home.
You
And this is the bit for your thoughts and comments lads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is the c.u. Located as the regs are with regards to escape route and under stairs, anywhere that you affect you exit route, you could also consider that a cabinet, made of a non- combustible material is also acceptable,

excuse the grammar

 

[Engineer54]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

BEAMA (British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers' Association) are nothing more than a manufacturers trade organisation and shouldn't be considered as anything more than that!! They are NOT independent, they represent the interests of 350 companies that pay fees to BEAMA....

I'll mention it once again, ...the rest of Europe seem to be very happy with the present fire retardant BS/EN standards relating to enclosures containing OCPD and the like, and have no plans on making any changes!! So who's being lead up the proverbial garden path??

 

[NDG Elecs]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

BEAMA and LFB have seemed to have influenced this new reg considerably.

I read somewhere recently that the BRE (building research establishment) and Voltimum were instrumental in the full metal jacket. Can't remember where it was I read it, but it was from a proper source and not heard down the boozer!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

BEAMA (British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers' Association) are nothing more than a manufacturers trade organisation and shouldn't be considered as anything more than that!! They are NOT independent, they represent the interests of 350 companies that pay fees to BEAMA....

I'll mention it once again, ...the rest of Europe seem to be very happy with the present fire retardant BS/EN standards relating to enclosures containing OCPD and the like, and have no plans on making any changes!! So who's being lead up the proverbial garden path??

The reg is irritating and ill thought out to say the least.

 

[driverman]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

I know a lot has been said about metal units....but no one has really come up with an answer how these metal consumer units are to be installed to restrict spread of fire. ie cable entry points.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

I know a lot has been said about metal units....but no one has really come up with an answer how these metal consumer units are to be installed to restrict spread of fire. ie cable entry points.

The advise is that cable entry points should not be at the top of the DB for obvious reasons.Thats about it I believe.

 

[driverman]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

From what I can gather....many Electricians, use timber, so as to space the consumer unit off the wall so that cables can enter from the rear. Would that practice be suitable with metal units to comply with regs Jan 2016

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

From what I can gather....many Electricians, use timber, so as to space the consumer unit off the wall so that cables can enter from the rear. Would that practice be suitable with metal units to comply with regs Jan 2016

I hope so as that is precisely what I did on a metal CU change last week.

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

said it before and i'll say it again. stupid knee-jerk reaction to poor training, teaching guys how to tighten terminals. they tried torque drivers. didn't work. now bolting the stable door to keep the horses inside when the stable's on fire. proper training after scrapping short courses would solve the problem.

 

[driverman]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

I hope so as that is precisely what I did on a metal CU change last week.

You will be OK, new regs not in yet! lol But, seriously though, do you think it would have to be somehow sealed? Also would timber being used be frowned upon?

 

[baldsparkies]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

BEAMA (British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers' Association) are nothing more than a manufacturers trade organisation and shouldn't be considered as anything more than that!! They are NOT independent, they represent the interests of 350 companies that pay fees to BEAMA....

I'll mention it once again, ...the rest of Europe seem to be very happy with the present fire retardant BS/EN standards relating to enclosures containing OCPD and the like, and have no plans on making any changes!! So who's being lead up the proverbial garden path??

WE ARE !!
If all qualified Sparkie's got together and grew a pair, we would all be telling the scheme providers and the IEE that they can shove there all steel enclosure reg where the sun don't shine.
But as usual we just bend over and take it. Always have, always will.
Sad thing is WE are the ones left with a very badly thought out hot potato.
And once again profits will be made at our expense.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

You will be OK, new regs not in yet! lol But, seriously though, do you think it would have to be somehow sealed? Also would timber being used be frowned upon?

No I dont think it would need to be sealed,nor do I think mounting the CU on ply would be non-compliant. But then I may be wrong,there's a lot of confusion on this still. This was a domestic 3 phase install and 3 separate DB's were used,one for on peak and two off peak,with an all metal main switch and a 100a contactor.First metal domestic for me for years! We had to order the DB's and wait 2 weeks for them as manufactuers are way behind with supply despite loads of notice that this was coming in.
I think this will create a whole load of new unforseen problems. Guys who are time served and used to commercial/industrial will have no problem with an awkward or more complicated CU change. But show some of the short course merchants a nut and bolt and a brass bush and they'll be lost.
I predict some right abortions come next year.

 

[ipf]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

No I dont think it would need to be sealed,nor do I think mounting the CU on ply would be non-compliant. But then I may be wrong,there's a lot of confusion on this still. This was a domestic 3 phase install and 3 separate DB's were used,one for on peak and two off peak,with an all metal main switch and a 100a contactor.First metal domestic for me for years! We had to order the DB's and wait 2 weeks for them as manufactuers are way behind with supply despite loads of notice that this was coming in.
I think this will create a whole load of new unforseen problems. Guys who are time served and used to commercial/industrial will have no problem with an awkward or more complicated CU change. But show some of the short course merchants a nut and bolt and a brass bush and they'll be lost.
I predict some right abortions come next year.

LATEST DEAL.............Free condoms with all new metal CU's! :icon12:

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

they'll need to be all metal construction condoms to comply with the latest BS for rubbers.

 

[Midwest]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

The new regs I've read require CU to be constructed of non combustible materials, nothing said about containing fire, nor having adjacent materials being non combustible (i.e. mounting on ply etc). Non of the manufacturers have provided for sealing of CU's (like fire retardant down lights). Mods could we have a sticky thread (or whatever it's called) for metal, sorry non combustible CU's. Seems to be a lot of discussion about this reg and metal CU, installation & interpretation of the reg. etc?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

Customer
Hi,
You fitted a consumer unit for us about 10 months ago.
You
Yes that's right, how can I help ?
Customer
Well the thing is I have just been browsing websites, and I have found the consumer unit you fitted is no longer compliant.
You
Yes there are new regulations concerning the materials used, but don't worry because it was compliant at the time of installation.
Customer
Well I am worried, because its not just a matter of a change in regulations is it !!
You
What do you mean ?
Customer
Well the regulations have been changed due to a potential fire hazard with the consumer unit you installed.
Apparently the materials used are not considered as non combustible.
I therefore feel I have been left with a consumer unit that is constructed of sub standard materials and from what I read a potential fire hazard in my home.
To be honest, I feel they should be re called and replaced with the new all metal units free of charge, by you.
And that it's up to you as the registered installer to seek compensation from the manufacturer or whoever you feel is responsible.
When can you come and replace the sub standard unit please, as I don't want a potential fire hazard left in my home.
You
And this is the bit for your thoughts and comments lads !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the conversation is far more likely to go:

Customer
Hi,
You fitted a consumer unit for us about 10 months ago.
You
Yes that's right, how can I help ?
Customer
Well the thing is I have just been browsing websites, and I would like some LED downlights please.
You
That would be fine, so everything ok with the consumer unit I fitted.
Customer
Yes, all ok.

The End :smile5:

I just can't see your scenario happening BaldSparks. Far too much fuss being made about it all!

Come 2016 the manufacturers will have made something compliant be it metal or plastic, and we'll fit it, and thats about it.

 

[telectrix]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

just remember that the titanic was all metal and complied with appropriate current regs.

 

[baldsparkies]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

just remember that the titanic was all metal and complied with appropriate current regs.

Ye gods, you saying new cu's have to have lifeboats in case they hit icebergs ???
Don't let the powers to be hear that !!
Amendment 4 here we come !!!

 

[Knobhead]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

No lifeboats, just a flood system.

 

[bigbaddave]

Re: So with the all steel consumer units on the way your conversation goes something

This is similar to the recall of Wylex breakers (well not as extream) but you get the picture. If exery customer expected there install to comply with the current edition of the regs then it would be a constant battle.