Starting car relay issue???

[Bunsofsteeeel]

Hi all thanks for any help in advance!!

I’m having a issue with a car that will only start if I use a bigger starter motor relay, the car originally uses micro relays from the factory, the car so far has had a new starter motor, new ignition switch and a brand new micro relay none of which have helped or worked, all the currents readings to the starter are normal and the car has quite a new battery.

Kind regards
Buns

 

[dmxtothemax]

And what exactly happens when you use the original micro relays ?

 

[static zap]

Is the starter motor the right one ,
(any part numbers / or re-built ?)
Manual or automtic car ?
..Signs of remains of add-on car alarms..

 

[ruston]

Have you fitted a secondary relay and bypassed the starting system? Is that what you mean?
As @dmxtothemax what exactly were the original symptoms, and as @static zap , any signs of alterations?
There are reasons and situations where inhibitors could be fitted, it may not be just the starter relay.

 

[ruston]

Repeat post.

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

Hi guys,
I’m going to try and answer you all in one post.

When I use the micro relays you just here the starter click when you turn the key but it doesn’t crank.

The new starter motor is a brand new copy but it’s a good make I still have the genuine one, it’s a manual car, I forgot to mention the car had a new alarm during this issue as I thought that was it’s problem as it had been playing up everything was taken out, the car is a manual.

Where the original micro relay plugs in I have put some male spade connectors in and some female spade connectors onto the bigger relay, the original symptoms are you get in turn the key and you can here the starter clicking but that’s it, no signs of anything being messed with before, everything else works on the car so I’m out of ideas.

this car only gets used on nice days if that helps.

Thank you for all the reply’s

 

[nbwriter]

Hi Guys...

For Buns: It would help considerably if we all knew the manufacturer, model version and production date of your car, please.

Known issues with certain makes/models of car are usually addressed both on dedicated manufacturer forums and youtube. (Your starter issue may be very well-known).

What I noticed....

You can no longer use your original starter relay ... Which points to a different (or incorrect voltage) being supplied to the relay. This means either the battery or starter motor is NOT supplying correct voltage required.

Although you state: "all the currents to the starter read normal" - What about voltages from the starter to the relay? Voltages change "under load" - That is, when the car is running.

From experience, if one has fitted any item in the electrical system that is NOT direct from the manufacturer - Alarm bells should ring.

Kind regards NB.

 

[ruston]

I agree with the above , If the solenoid is clicking at switching it is obviously receiving power but not the correct amount. It would seem that you have a supply problem from the relay, or the solenoid maybe faulty and the higher power from the direct connection is enough to activate it . Did the old starter crank from the bypass relay?
Are you hinting it is a classic car Lol. No fancy gizmo's .(except micro control)
If this has happened since the alarm was fitted I would check the tapped connections from where the immobiliser was fitted , they may of left you with one strand lol.
Also as has been said most pattern parts are crap.

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

The car is a Mitsubishi evolution 8 fq300 2003, I’ve been on the forums and unfortunately for this is not a problem anyone else has had, there is a known ignition switch issue but that was swapped out and it’s usually on very high mileage cars which this one isn’t, the battery isn’t old and is kept on a trickle charge while the car is off the rd, the voltages from the starter to the relay read normal also, I haven’t checked the voltages under load, I agree about pattern parts but the car is starting no problem with this unit I could put the old one back on to test.

The old starter got swapped out before the bigger relay was tried as it was getting power the relay didn’t seem to be the problem at the time, i know the alarm guy used him for 12 years so I trust his work now if I did it I would be double checking lol

Thanks for the reply’s

 

[ruston]

Well your relay does not seem to be holding the load for some reason , probably related to supply or earth.
That is if the replacement is ok too.

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

It’s very strange as everything reads ok so I’m at a loss with it, the relay is a brand new genuine Mitsubishi one.

Thanks for the reply

 

[ruston]

Is there any way you can get a temporary trigger to the relay , and supply from the latch to the solenoid. Also check the earth(neg) to the relay too. You must have a faulty supply unless there is an inhibitor somewhere . Do you have to put your foot on the brake or depress the clutch on your car to start it ?

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

That is an idea I’ve just been on the phone I got a mate of mine coming to have a look next week I will mention that to him cheers, not sure about the inhibitor to be honest, you used to have to depress the clutch to start it but I had that removed when the new alarm was fitted.

 

[ruston]

It may need reinstating then .
Good luck.

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

well the car will be coming apart this week to figure this out need to get it sorted now!

 

[ruston]

If you have an open inhibitor circuit that will be a major clue. Close the circuit or put things back as they were.

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

thanks I will look at that, i will speak to my alarm guy about the pedal start but I asked him to disconnect it all at the time

 

[ruston]

Ok good luck. Let us know how you get on.
As long as he closed the circuit .

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

I will I bet it's something bloody stupid lol

 

[ruston]

Yes it may well be . It does seem to be confined to one circuit so I am almost certain it is a supply problem or lack of it, as I have said before.
Check for harnesses being around the hot bits and through bulkheads ect . I still think it is related to interfering with the inhibitor and alarm circuits . Unless you have mice , they like cars that don't move much.

 

[nbwriter]

Hi Guys,

Makes for interesting reading... I personally (being a supergeek from the oldschool) would overhaul all the electrics on such a good car!

Wallet permitting, I would ensure the starter motor is genuine Mitsubishi, the solenoid, relays and battery (or at least for the battery what Mitsubishi recommend)... But I wouldnt trust "mates" to know the exact specs of such items, I would go direct to the manufacturer, giving them precise details of your model.

This caught my eye:

Well your relay does not seem to be holding the load for some reason , probably related to supply or earth.

1. If wiring has been tampered with - this could cause voltage supply issue.

2. Since your car has been in use since 2003 (thats about 15 years) the Earth connector may need a good clean. Both the connector and metal it attaches to should be bright. Even though your readings appear to be "normal", readings can be misleading. One failing part in the chain can lead to incorrect supply voltage.

3. Not sure why you need your battery on "trickle charge"? A well-made battery will be charged correctly by the alternator (if the belt has been fitted with the correct adjustment) during normal driving conditions.

Kind Regards NB

 

[ruston]

@nbwriter Yes you are correct, he does say the car only comes out on nice days , that would not be a lot up here lol., so would explain the trickle charge.
Your other points are valid too , old wiring does tend to just disintegrate from within , and the earths don't.
If the inhibitor has not been traced properly before removal this could cause problems too , as you know fun and games following people.

 

[gnuuser]

when you get it started do you have access to a thermal imaging camera? this can point out hot spots in the wiring and terminal connections. as old as the car is its a good bet you may have some corrosion inhibiting the current a bit.
as NB stated the terminals should be clean and bright.
also look for loose connections! they may look tight but if you can move them at all they are too loose.

 

[nbwriter]

Hi Guys,

From my experience of working on (older) cars, I suspect gnuuser is on the right track:

Corrosion on terminals (will cause voltage disruption) - I would change them all out! Loose connections is the other culprit. I would systematically ensure all are tight and bright right through the wiring system.

Kind Regards NB

 

[Bunsofsteeeel]

Sorry I haven't posted sooner!, well basically I couldn't find the issue so I called a auto electrician out, he said I had lost one of the power sources to the relay so he just added a new power source, we could of looked for the problem but this could of took hours and cost me more money, he said the car worked on the bigger relay as it rerouted how the relay worked , thanks to everyone that posted trying to help! I think I'm going to give the car a well deserved wash now!