Thoughts on 5 week DEI courses?

[Franad]

Hey guys I completed this course back in July and have been looking to do further studies to gain more knowledge. I was hoping to be able to jump straight into the Level 3 in electrical installations but have been told by at least 2 colleges that those courses don't count towards the Level 2 so have to start from there. So my question is ... what did I gain from doing the short course (apart from my BS7671, Part P and Initial Verification course)? Could I realistically get work in the industry with those qualifications? I'm a bit miffed after forking out over £3k it doesn't seem to stand for much ???‍ Any thoughts?

 

[UNG]

I think you have found out the hard way what these courses are really worth.
The Part P qualification has little or no value in the real world
While the regs course and the Initial Verification course are useful they are not backed up with the necessary core qualifications to provide the underpinning knowledge
It may be possible to get work as a mate / labourer gaining site experience while you study for the necessary qualifications to enable you to work as an electrician

 

[Vortigern]

Your situation is not unique unfortunately. If you are serious about entering the electrical trade please scrutinise the below link.

Morris Services - Getting Started

This is the definitive route(s) to successfully becoming an electrician. You may note that there is electrician grade or domestic installer which do you envisage embarking upon? It is important to work that out. Do you have any experience within the trade?

 

[Franad]

I think you have found out the hard way what these courses are really worth.
The Part P qualification has little or no value in the real world
While the regs course and the Initial Verification course are useful they are not backed up with the necessary core qualifications to provide the underpinning knowledge
It may be possible to get work as a mate / labourer gaining site experience while you study for the necessary qualifications to enable you to work as an electrician

Thanks for the response. I'm lucky that the course was paid for by my employer but I was hoping it would count for more. But I really want to train as an electrician so it's back to evening classes for me. I've been offered some site work so I guess I can use that as valuable hands on experience. I just wish they made it clearer that the short courses are limiting with what employment you can gain after. I suppose if you just want to do installation work the shorter course is ok, but could you say install circuits and then sign them off without being a member of a CPS? ??‍
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Your situation is not unique unfortunately. If you are serious about entering the electrical trade please scrutinise the below link.

Morris Services - Getting Started

This is the definitive route(s) to successfully becoming an electrician. You may note that there is electrician grade or domestic installer which do you envisage embarking upon? It is important to work that out. Do you have any experience within the trade?

I don't have any real experience in the trade but have always been interested which is why I pursued the short course as I have a full time job in another industry at the moment. I would like to pursue a career as an electrician so I am now looking for evening courses for the Level 2 leading to the Level 3. Lesson learnt ? I wish I had known about this forum before I took the shorter course! Maybe I would have gotten some sound advice before.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hey guys I completed this course back in July and have been looking to do further studies to gain more knowledge. I was hoping to be able to jump straight into the Level 3 in electrical installations but have been told by at least 2 colleges that those courses don't count towards the Level 2 so have to start from there. So my question is ... what did I gain from doing the short course (apart from my BS7671, Part P and Initial Verification course)? Could I realistically get work in the industry with those qualifications? I'm a bit miffed after forking out over £3k it doesn't seem to stand for much ???‍ Any thoughts?

The one thing it 'may' have given you is the piece of paper you need to satisfy a registration body (Stroma, Napit etc) that you have the minimum required qualifications to register as a domestic installer.
The course wont actually have given you the required knowledge or experience though.
I guess you have 2 choices...

1. Continue with level 2 and 3 and whatever else you need to become a qualified electrician (definitely the way forward if you are a youngster) or..

2. Get some work alongside an electrician for a year or 2 doing solely domestic so you can get some experience and then register with a scheme. You can then solely work in the domestic arena. Perhaps a better option if you are 40+ (very broadly speaking)

 

[sloughrookie]

I just wish they made it clearer that the short courses are limiting with what employment you can gain after. I suppose if you just want to do installation work the shorter course is ok, but could you say install circuits and then sign them off without being a member of a CPS? ??‍

Every training company will make all sorts of claims about what your employment chances are after you complete any stage of their courses. The reality is very different.

If you are looking at starting out on your own as a sole trader then you will probably be the Proposed Qualified Supervisor and (as per NIC website) must have 2 years responsibility in said position before you can join up and sign off your own work, but this may differ with another CPS.

The rules on assessment seem to be a bit wooly too, I have read on the NIC website that the assessment must be "representative of the work you normally do", however, I have also read that this has changed and must include a full rewire. How does this work if you or the company you work for don't carry out full re-wires?? I think the only way to be sure is to call whichever every CPS you want to join.

Reading your post you say you have access to work experience on site. Grab this and every opportunity with both hands as it's invaluable. I'm still training and lucky enough to have someone to offer me work experience and training on site but it took me over a year of trying. I know lots of other trainees who cannot even get a foot in the door offering free labour for experience on site. In my personal experience and from what I've heard from others, most electricians/companies are not interested in taking anyone on because they feel you will slow them down, cost money and will be no benefit to them.

I would suggest you learn to drop the term "short course" when applying for any position and just say you are studying for whatever level you are going for. There is a LOT of hatred in the industry against the training companies who offer the condensed learning facilities and anyone who goes on them so if you want to make it you will have to be prepared for zero help from anyone and have the determination to succeed.

Good Luck.

 

[Franad]

The one thing it 'may' have given you is the piece of paper you need to satisfy a registration body (Stroma, Napit etc) that you have the minimum required qualifications to register as a domestic installer.
The course wont actually have given you the required knowledge or experience though.
I guess you have 2 choices...

1. Continue with level 2 and 3 and whatever else you need to become a qualified electrician (definitely the way forward if you are a youngster) or..

2. Get some work alongside an electrician for a year or 2 doing solely domestic so you can get some experience and then register with a scheme. You can then solely work in the domestic arena. Perhaps a better option if you are 40+ (very broadly speaking)

Thanks for your reply. I'm definitely in the 40+ bracket! The only issue I have is I am currently employed (in another industry) so I would need to find some work at the weekends or evenings. I have put the feelers out so fingers crossed let's see what happens. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I'm thinking now maybe I would have been better off just doing the Level 2 and 3 straight off! If I wanted to register with Stroma / Napit I would have to have proven experience I'm guessing?

I've been offered a potential house re-wire, but would I be able to sign it off if I'm not registered with Napit etc? Even though I have technically passed my Initial Verification? Also that's obviously notifiable work so again would I been deemed competent to carry out that work and report it? It's a minefield!

I'm really grateful for the advice guys I wish I had sought advice prior to deciding what course to go for!

 

[JAWS]

Thanks for your reply. I'm definitely in the 40+ bracket! The only issue I have is I am currently employed (in another industry) so I would need to find some work at the weekends or evenings. I have put the feelers out so fingers crossed let's see what happens. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I'm thinking now maybe I would have been better off just doing the Level 2 and 3 straight off! If I wanted to register with Stroma / Napit I would have to have proven experience I'm guessing?

I've been offered a potential house re-wire, but would I be able to sign it off if I'm not registered with Napit etc? Even though I have technically passed my Initial Verification? Also that's obviously notifiable work so again would I been deemed competent to carry out that work and report it? It's a minefield!

I'm really grateful for the advice guys I wish I had sought advice prior to deciding what course to go for!

Morning Franad when you say you've passed your initial verification do you mean the 2392 or the 2391-50 ?

 

[Franad]

Every training company will make all sorts of claims about what your employment chances are after you complete any stage of their courses. The reality is very different.

If you are looking at starting out on your own as a sole trader then you will probably be the Proposed Qualified Supervisor and (as per NIC website) must have 2 years responsibility in said position before you can join up and sign off your own work, but this may differ with another CPS.

The rules on assessment seem to be a bit wooly too, I have read on the NIC website that the assessment must be "representative of the work you normally do", however, I have also read that this has changed and must include a full rewire. How does this work if you or the company you work for don't carry out full re-wires?? I think the only way to be sure is to call whichever every CPS you want to join.

Reading your post you say you have access to work experience on site. Grab this and every opportunity with both hands as it's invaluable. I'm still training and lucky enough to have someone to offer me work experience and training on site but it took me over a year of trying. I know lots of other trainees who cannot even get a foot in the door offering free labour for experience on site. In my personal experience and from what I've heard from others, most electricians/companies are not interested in taking anyone on because they feel you will slow them down, cost money and will be no benefit to them.

I would suggest you learn to drop the term "short course" when applying for any position and just say you are studying for whatever level you are going for. There is a LOT of hatred in the industry against the training companies who offer the condensed learning facilities and anyone who goes on them so if you want to make it you will have to be prepared for zero help from anyone and have the determination to succeed.

Good Luck.

Thanks for your advice. I think your last paragraph is the way forward. It's disappointing though that as a mature person entering the industry these "short courses" maybe your only option to train at a reasonable cost! I am debating on trying to get some experience within domestic settings or biting the bullet and getting myself onto a C&G Level 2 course.

I don't suppose anyone has done the distance learning version of this course? It obviously also involves practical sessions at a training centre but most of the theoretical side is done on one's own merits!
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Morning Franad when you say you've passed your initial verification do you mean the 2392 or the 2391-50 ?

Hi Jaws This is the qualification I have gained, it's LCL rather than C&G so I'm not sure what the equivalent is?

• Initial Verification, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations – LCL Awards Level 3 RQF qualification

 

[Franad]

Morning Franad when you say you've passed your initial verification do you mean the 2392 or the 2391-50 ?

Hi Jaws, I've just checked the website and it appears the initial verification course I did was the equivalent to C&G 2394 if that helps?