Who will you vote for?

[trev]

I'm voting conservatives. I've only voted once before and that was for conservatives last time, and they won. So I think they see my vote as important because they basically put in power who I vote for by the looks of things.

I think they've done a fairly good job of sorting out the benefits culture. Spoke to a few chavs who have been on it years that have said they've had them stopped unless they work for charities for free or whatever. Had to refrain from laughing in their faces. Just about managed that.

One of the problems with that is that it's often not charities that those percieved as workshy are forced to work for for free. Remember the woman who took her case to court? She was doing voluntary work in a museum in the line of work she wanted to get into, she was gaining experience which would stand her in good stead. Along come the DWP and try to force her to work in Poundland.
Now the last I heard, Poundland are a profit making company. If a job exists that can be filled by someone working for nothing then it exists for someone who should be properly recruited and paid the going market rate.
Thankfully she gave Iain Duncan Smith a bloody nose in court, incidentally I should probably add that the case made the news because of the DWP's appeals against decisions made in lower courts.
Many companies pay their staff ridiculously low wages so that they are kept under the employers NI threshold. This results in people needing in work benefits a situation which, imo, must be addressed as it is exploitative of all parties to the deal (apart from the employer)

 

[Silly Sausage]

Everyone keeps banging on about Dole bludgers and the like, this speaks volumes ...

https://straighttothesource.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/welfare-spending-2011-2012.jpg

Bearing in mind that fraud is only a small percentage of any one category.
OK, it may well be a lot of cash being fraudulently claimed, but in the big scheme of it all, it's knack all.

 

[Octopus]

Corrected that for you Mr Cameron.

So if your 1% is correct why are they getting the same number of people saying they are going to vote for them as Labour??

Utter tosh.

And I can see why you want to be a Labour Councillor - you simply haven't got a fxcking clue. Out of touch, like all the leaders of all the parties.

 

[Octopus]

Everyone keeps banging on about Dole bludgers and the like, this speaks volumes ...

https://straighttothesource.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/welfare-spending-2011-2012.jpg

Bearing in mind that fraud is only a small percentage of any one category.
OK, it may well be a lot of cash being fraudulently claimed, but in the big scheme of it all, it's knack all.

Who's that then??

 

[Octopus]

The conservatives=the party who has borrowed more in the last 5 years than labour did in 13, yet it is hardly mentioned, flucking disgusting propaganda which makes my blood boil.

A statistic I can't dsagree with, BUT if Labour had won in 2010 they would have borrowed more than the Coelition has.

 

[trev]

A statistic I can't dsagree with, BUT if Labour had won in 2010 they would have borrowed more than the Coelition has.

If my Auntie had been a man she'd have been my Uncle.

 

[Guest77]

A statistic I can't dsagree with, BUT if Labour had won in 2010 they would have borrowed more than the Coelition has.

HOW DO YOU KNOW? what qualifies you to suggest this? evidence please.

 

[Englishman]

HOW DO YOU KNOW? what qualifies you to suggest this? evidence please.

Maybe the fact that they were borrowing £150billion a year when they left number 10, and then opposed every attempt to cut that deficit by the coalition maybe...

 

[Guest77]

But a lot less than the Tories, they have increased the deficeit by an extra 500 billion in 5 years buffoon, so lets see your excuse for that.

 

[Octopus]

HOW DO YOU KNOW? what qualifies you to suggest this? evidence please.

Because Ed Balls has REPEATEDLY said that the Coelition has cut too far, too fast, so by this he would have carried on borrowing MORE than the coelition than Labour would have.

Simples.

 

[Octopus]

But a lot less than the Tories, they have increased the deficeit by an extra 500 billion in 5 years buffoon, so lets see your excuse for that.

See post 310

 

[andyb]

Because Ed Balls has REPEATEDLY said that the Coelition has cut too far, too fast, so by this he would have carried on borrowing MORE than the coelition than Labour would have.

Simples.

Not that simples, when the coalition came in the economy was growing. The austerity budget in the autumn plunged this country into recession so we had less tax collected.
This government has been borrowing to make up the shortfall as well as everything else that's been going on.
If we had a bigger economy and more tax revenue that goes with it plus less unemployment to pay for then borrowing would of been less.

Not simples.

 

[Octopus]

Not that simples, when the coalition came in the economy was growing. The austerity budget in the autumn plunged this country into recession so we had less tax collected.
This government has been borrowing to make up the shortfall as well as everything else that's been going on.
If we had a bigger economy and more tax revenue that goes with it plus less unemployment to pay for then borrowing would of been less.

Not simples.

Yup, because the Labour party were trying to keep it inflated by employing 250K new civil servants and spending money left, right and centre.

This situation was unsubstainable as they (as usual forgot) that excessive Public spending is not the way out of a dip......

so they could have borrowed £150 billion for 5 years and the national debt would have grown by £750 billion

When more than 50% of GDP is generated by public spending (which was 53% in 20009/2010) its never going to work

EDIT: And because the EU is also in a mess (and continues to be so) one of our biggest export areas is in, and continues to be in, the doledrums!

 

[Guest77]

See post 310

I have seen it, I am still laughing at it.

 

[andyb]

Yup, because the Labour party were trying to keep it inflated by employing 250K new civil servants and spending money left, right and centre.

This situation was unsubstainable as they (as usual forgot) that excessive Public spending is not the way out of a dip......

so they could have borrowed £150 billion for 5 years and the national debt would have grown by £750 billion

When more than 50% of GDP is generated by public spending (which was 53% in 20009/2010) its never going to work

EDIT: And because the EU is also in a mess (and continues to be so) one of our biggest export areas is in, and continues to be in, the doledrums!

Well the public sector was about 20% of the workforce, I'm not sure how they could account for over 50% of gdp.

The £150b a year for 5 years is something you have pulled out of thin air, probably based on Labours last couple of years in government. It's not a fact is it? Labour never got in so it can't be.
What is a fact however is the coalition borrowing about £115b a year for 5 years. I assume your comfortable with that.
Another fact is the Tory promise that the slash & burn austerity measures they introduced would erase the deficit in the course of this government.

 

[trev]

IMO what we need is a government focused on prosperity, not austerity. One that will not punish the unemployed, the poor and sick for being unemployed, poor or sick

 

[Dan]

I don't like this dole culture. Doesn't matter who created it. It sort of whittled in while the two main parties were in government. But I know people on the sick that shouldn't be. People who treat the dole like it's a wage and go fishing monthly and on holidays a couple of times a year and buy the latest £60 Xbox and PS4 games when they're out. And they don't spend any time looking for work and have no intentions of doing so.

I think tories have helped a bit with getting a bunch of those off the dole. I think. Might be wrong. Just feels that way. But I hope whoever is next in power really starts to take a look at that culture and starts to get these families who breed families of the same culture back in work!

 

[R G]

Originally the benefits system was set up for those who needed it for subsistence and a temporary entitlement , unfortunately its now used a lifestyle for many , the tories have at least high lighted the problem and put into action some help in reversing it , even old style labour would have tried to put a stop to it and I would have voted for them . The slide of the old British values has gone down hill and where at one time you would be scorned on for a life on the dole , now its accepted ...

 

[Dan]

If I were in power it'd be 12 months and then you're on your own pal. So use this 12 months wisely.

 

[trev]

What the tories have done is blown the problem out of all proportion and convinced certain sections of the population that it is far bigger than it actually is. They have diverted attention from far more outrageous things which are happening.
Ask yourself this, who has done the most harm to the British economy? Banks with their profligate betting shop culture or a few people who are on the dole?
The government employs 3000 people to track down £1.2 - 2 billion of fraudulent/wrongly claimed benefits but employs 300 people to track down £100 billion + in dodged tax by wealthy individuals and large companies.
(All figures quoted are estimates given by the DWP and HMRC themselves)

 

[Octopus]

IMO what we need is a government focused on prosperity, not austerity. One that will not punish the unemployed, the poor and sick for being unemployed, poor or sick

So you are happy for people to get £26K tax free when you are earning this, for 40 hours AND paying tax and NI??

600K+ people came to England, and found work. This means 600K brits have the excuse to do nothing.

If I was in charge, I would progressively reduce all unemployment benefits, over time until work paid.

 

[R G]

Its not just dole now , how many people are living on other benefits in form or another , ask yourself the question why have people became apathetic to politics and why is the turnout lower than it used to be many years ago , the answer is that they are not being listened to , old labour were at least for the people ,where now they are a mess , you can see why UKIP is gaining popularity and the price for doing so is to be ridiculed by the other parties....

 

[trev]

So you are happy for people to get £26K tax free when you are earning this, for 40 hours AND paying tax and NI??

600K+ people came to England, and found work. This means 600K brits have the excuse to do nothing.

If I was in charge, I would progressively reduce all unemployment benefits, over time until work paid.

No, of course I'm not happy to have people languishing on the dole, my point is though that the problem is much lower than our government would like us to believe. What I'm also not happy with is the demonisation of the people I mentioned.

 

[Octopus]

ha ha ha.

I heard Ming Campbell a short while ago, on the radio saying he thought that Nicola Sturgeon, last night, reminded him of Margaret Thatcher!

 

[plugsandsparks]

ha ha ha.

I heard Ming Campbell a short while ago, on the radio saying he thought that Nicola Sturgeon, last night, reminded him of Margaret Thatcher!

*********** WHAT !!!! - ONLY IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, where NS is the anti-matter. Actually she could be quite good for UK politics , if I wasn't the crap content that she purports

 

[Octopus]

*********** WHAT !!!! - ONLY IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE, where NS is the anti-matter. Actually she could be quite good for UK politics , if I wasn't the crap content that she purports

In a perverse way I quite like her approach. No messing, no playing for the soundbites. What you hear, is what you always hear ...... unlike MOST of the others!

 

[Diddy]

Benefit culture does indeed exist. It is alive and well in my area in Scotland. BUT the area boasts high unemployment, Bad public transport and there are very few local jobs. Now what is the answer ? Do you want the guy to move to the south east of England to find work ? Plenty have done it (I worked down there for 13 years and had a great time.) Anyway so say the young eager bright all move south....What happens next ? Tons of empty houses up north and a housing and infrastructure crisis in the south. Sound familiar ?
So no im afraid the answers are not a simple "Get on your bike" - the fact of life is some areas of the country are depressed areas. These areas need government funding to attract businesses to the areas THEN we can say to the long term unemployed - get back to work lads.
Coupled with better education, apprenticeships, training programs ect ect ect...all this needs addressing before we start looking into telling people that there are jobs available for all.....will never happen of course.

 

[Octopus]

Benefit culture does indeed exist. It is alive and well in my area in Scotland. BUT the area boasts high unemployment, Bad public transport and there are very few local jobs. Now what is the answer ? Do you want the guy to move to the south east of England to find work ? Plenty have done it (I worked down there for 13 years and had a great time.) Anyway so say the young eager bright all move south....What happens next ? Tons of empty houses up north and a housing and infrastructure crisis in the south. Sound familiar ?
So no im afraid the answers are not a simple "Get on your bike" - the fact of life is some areas of the country are depressed areas. These areas need government funding to attract businesses to the areas THEN we can say to the long term unemployed - get back to work lads.
Coupled with better education, apprenticeships, training programs ect ect ect...all this needs addressing before we start looking into telling people that there are jobs available for all.....will never happen of course.

You will be pretty safe from the influx then.

The strange thing about this free movement around the EU, is that the "clever" people from the poorer countries will almost certainly move for work, which will inturn leave their homelands poorer.. meaning more people will leave the country......

Not sure how you can stop it!

 

[rapparee]

The ****less idle who live on the dole are a bit of a red herring. The fact is that most claimants of welfare are employees who recieve poor wages from greedy employers unwilling to pay a fair wage, the government is then forced to top up the low wage in the form of tax credits. If employers were no longer subsidised and made pay a fair wage then the welfare budget could be slashed.

 

[Diddy]

You will be pretty safe from the influx then.

The strange thing about this free movement around the EU, is that the "clever" people from the poorer countries will almost certainly move for work, which will inturn leave their homelands poorer.. meaning more people will leave the country......

Not sure how you can stop it!

Well I have hinted at how to stop it within the UK - Invest in the deprived area PROPERLY.
We need more schools ? Build them
We need more teachers ? Bloody well train more and make the position more attractive
Need more doctors and Gp's ? Train within our country
BUT BUT BUT all of that takes cash and we are in a recession....Well scrap HS" and scrap trident for a start.
We desperately need more power stations - Build them with government money funded by a super tax on the energy companies....As they don't seem to be using the resources given to them to do this.
All of that takes cash...Yes there is debt, There has ALWAYS been debt. Every western country runs on debt and have done for 100 years.
Ask yourself this. What would you rather leave your future generations ? A society that educates all to a acceptable standard. A health service that works and most importantly a future proof energy supply. If you leave them that you may leave them high tax's and debt - Or you could let everything decline to the stage where private companies and insurance industry control ALL of the above with the chance of insecure energy supply and low tax's. I think essentially the argument boils down to your outlook.
These things are not being discussed during this election..and they bloody well should be. But mark my words we will be discussing them in future elections.

 

[Diddy]

The ****less idle who live on the dole are a bit of a red herring. The fact is that most claimants of welfare are employees who recieve poor wages from greedy employers unwilling to pay a fair wage, the government is then forced to top up the low wage in the form of tax credits. If employers were no longer subsidised and made pay a fair wage then the welfare budget could be slashed.

Yep this is a massive problem. One that needs deep thought to work out. Because you cant just stop the in work benefits without something in its place. Maybe a much higher minimum wage ? Some clever bod needs to work ot how much it costs region by region to "live". What it costs to eat/heat and shelter someone pluss 10% pocket money. Divide that up into a wage and go from there.
Obviously its not that easy but something has to give - will prices go up ? Probably. Will shareholder loose out ? probably. Will pensions be effected ? Yep. But we really will have to start looking at this stuff.
The answers to the worlds problems do not lie in big business leeching cheap labour and tax payers subsidizing them to turn a profit...if we are a market driven economy then do it properly - its time we stopped subsidizing multi national companies - If there is demand for a product/service then there will always be someone wanting to supply...time to stop the big tax breaks ect.

 

[trev]

The Kingfisher Group experienced a 7% drop in profits recently.
To put that in perspective, for every hundred quid they profited last year they ONLY (?) profited £93 this year (obviously the chronology is wrong but I'm sure you get the gist)
Their answer is to announce the closure of something like 60 outlets. How many jobs are going to be lost?
**** like this should be illegal

 

[Octopus]

The Kingfisher Group experienced a 7% drop in profits recently.
To put that in perspective, for every hundred quid they profited last year they ONLY (?) profited £93 this year (obviously the chronology is wrong but I'm sure you get the gist)
Their answer is to announce the closure of something like 60 outlets. How many jobs are going to be lost?
**** like this should be illegal

**** like this should be illegal.

Don't be so stupid

 

[trev]

**** like this should be illegal.

Don't be so stupid

Saint Margaret of Kesteven would be proud of you

 

[Octopus]

Saint Margaret of Kesteven would be proud of you

Illegal???? You are stark raving mad.

 

[plugsandsparks]

This is why I really don't understand socialists / lefties approach to dealing with business in a capitalist global economy. Anybody on here who is self employed / runs a business has exactly the same issues to deal with as a Kingfisher except a plc has one big disadvantage, it can be bought outright. I don't know about anybody else but I do make cuts to my costs every year, whether it be my energy costs, insurance costs, scam membership, banking etc etc. So as I cut my suppliers get less and also need to cut etc etc. This is necessary to keep me competitive and make sure I can generate a profit to keep Mrs P&S in the luxury she has become used to. If a Kingfisher has incurred a profits drop, then there will be a view as to whether it is run properly or not and ultimately the management can be replaced / or more worryingly it can be bought outright by a Carrefour for example. This is why business has to be supported and encouraged in the UK as its business that employs people and paying NI, pensions and CT and those employees pay tax, NI and spend money hence VAT.
Lefties kill this all stone dead, they should never be in power in a Global capitalist system, its a way too dangerous world for idealistic (wouldn't the world be great if)..... ideas that simply don't work. VOTE TORY its our only hope.

 

[Diddy]

This is why I really don't understand socialists / lefties approach to dealing with business in a capitalist global economy. Anybody on here who is self employed / runs a business has exactly the same issues to deal with as a Kingfisher except a plc has one big disadvantage, it can be bought outright. I don't know about anybody else but I do make cuts to my costs every year, whether it be my energy costs, insurance costs, scam membership, banking etc etc. So as I cut my suppliers get less and also need to cut etc etc. This is necessary to keep me competitive and make sure I can generate a profit to keep Mrs P&S in the luxury she has become used to. If a Kingfisher has incurred a profits drop, then there will be a view as to whether it is run properly or not and ultimately the management can be replaced / or more worryingly it can be bought outright by a Carrefour for example. This is why business has to be supported and encouraged in the UK as its business that employs people and paying NI, pensions and CT and those employees pay tax, NI and spend money hence VAT.
Lefties kill this all stone dead, they should never be in power in a Global capitalist system, its a way too dangerous world for idealistic (wouldn't the world be great if)..... ideas that simply don't work. VOTE TORY its our only hope.

Global capitalist system....what bull. So every year while you are busy cutting costs do you cut your prices to suit ? If you do not then the only person seeing the benefit of your cuts is "self". Thank goodness less than a third of those who can be bothered to vote are not silly enough to be taken in by the tories.
As I said above if we are using a pure capitalist model then we should adhere to it completely. No taxpayer subsidizing, No bailouts NOTHING. If business want to use OUR public services like road,rail,police,education....you know that stuff that actually enables business to operate, Then they should dam well pay for it along with the rest of us not just take take take and then eventually bugger off out of the country because they have bled it dry.
I actually realize that all the dream left wing policies are unachievable but I do know if they were achieved we would ALL be better off including businesses. If the right wingers continue to get their way then within a generation we will all be reminiscing about the times it used to all be "free" but now it is too expensive.
Time to get rid of the Tory scum, Its our only hope !!!

 

[Octopus]

CAVEAT*****

Source of information will be revealed later!


So everybody gets upset about the right to buy policy of the Conservative Government led by Margaret Thatcher of 1979 - but:

1. In what year was it first in a Party manifesto?
2. For which political party?

Have fun

 

[trev]

This is why business has to be supported and encouraged in the UK as its business that employs people

So would you be happy if your son/daughter/wife was employed on an exploitative zero hours contract and was reliant on top ups from the benefit system to make ends meet?
It's supporting a business after all

 

[Octopus]

So would you be happy if your son/daughter/wife was employed on an exploitative zero hours contract and was reliant on top ups from the benefit system to make ends meet?
It's supporting a business after all

Or if you are in Doncaster, subsidising your Council Tax

 

[andyb]

CAVEAT*****

Source of information will be revealed later!


So everybody gets upset about the right to buy policy of the Conservative Government led by Margaret Thatcher of 1979 - but:

1. In what year was it first in a Party manifesto?
2. For which political party?

Have fun

I think the ability to buy council houses was around for years, it was the Thatcher government made it a legal right. (I think)

Who gets upset though? It was 35 years ago. I disagree with it but I'm certainly not upset, although I can't speak for everyone.
Why are you upset Murdoch?

 

[Guest77]

I think the ability to buy council houses was around for years, it was the Thatcher government made it a legal right. (I think)

Who gets upset though? It was 35 years ago. I disagree with it but I'm certainly not upset, although I can't speak for everyone.
Why are you upset Murdoch?

Because we will not agree with his extreme views, he slags everyone off, all parties, yet we know not what he believes in, every policy mentioned here he disagrees with, thats why he is angry lol. Joking aside I really like Clive, but his political views are very secret.

 

[Octopus]

I think the ability to buy council houses was around for years, it was the Thatcher government made it a legal right. (I think)

Who gets upset though? It was 35 years ago. I disagree with it but I'm certainly not upset, although I can't speak for everyone.
Why are you upset Murdoch?

So come on and try and answer my Saturday quiz!

 

[andyb]

So come on and try and answer my Saturday quiz!

Labour 1959, I googled it.

And?

 

[Octopus]

Labour 1959, I googled it.

And?

Well, all you left leaning voters attack The Conservatives for what is actually a Labour policy. Go figure

 

[Guest77]

CAVEAT*****

Source of information will be revealed later!


So everybody gets upset about the right to buy policy of the Conservative Government led by Margaret Thatcher of 1979 - but:

1. In what year was it first in a Party manifesto?
2. For which political party?

Have fun

Thing is Clive she has sold off all the council houses and then it has left us with a houses shortage for those people who cannot afford to buy, we now need to build houses which are low cost to house people, whatever you may think it still gets back to Thatcher, she has single handedlly destroyed this country IMO, She IMO knew about the pending invasion on the Falklands yet due to her falling in the polls decided to wait until it was too late to gain more support from the public by sending in the task force, apart from the Falklands capture she did nothing for us, nothing, lets not forget the Miners situation and the Poll tax, lets not forget the demise of the industry, lets not forget the housing shortage due to selling off, I despise the woman.

 

[Guest77]

Read Labour?s manifesto ? The Labour Party

 

[trev]

Well, all you left leaning voters attack The Conservatives for what is actually a Labour policy. Go figure

How many policies are put on paper then abandoned by all the parties? Ukip seem to do it more often than I change socks.

 

[Guest77]

well the Tories have broken 22 promises from the last election, that was at the last count, it could me more now, they think they are above the law, lets not forget pleb gate.

 

[andyb]

Well, all you left leaning voters attack The Conservatives for what is actually a Labour policy. Go figure

I think you need to do more than read a snippet on the web and then form an opinion.

The right to buy in the 1959 manifesto only applied to private tenants in sub standard accommodation, ie no bathroom, which Labour said that they would let councils take over to modernise as the private landlords had not. But there was a proviso that the existing tenant would have the right to buy first.
Hardly the same is it.

Now I never knew this but it took just a couple of minutes to find out.

Go figure.