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Discuss wire in walls in the Commercial Electrical Advice area at ElectriciansForums.net

S

scuba

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hi all

I need to extend a light cable and extend a socket cable and also bury them in walls (plaster over) how do i do this properly?

thanks
 
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J

Jumbonipondon_squilobidon

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  • #2
Isolate the circuit before commencing work.;)
 
W

wonkey donkey

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  • #3
Contact an electrician. The yellow pages is an amazing source of competent electrical contractors
 
C

Cirrus

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  • #4
Would ya like my business number? Cheap to members like you - £55 per hour (what my tattooist charges me)
 
W

wayne

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  • #5
oh what abunch of japesters!
if your extending an existing cable doesnt the joint have to be accessible ,i cant remember the exclusions
as you are altering two circuits this cant go on a single minor works cert (reading from the book)
 
S

Shakey

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  • #6
oh what abunch of japesters!
if your extending an existing cable doesnt the joint have to be accessible ,i cant remember the exclusions
as you are altering two circuits this cant go on a single minor works cert (reading from the book)
yes the joint has to be accessible for inspection and maintenenace, ( a screw compression joint) except a joint made by soldering or crimping
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
hi all

I need to extend a light cable and extend a socket cable and also bury them in walls (plaster over) how do i do this properly?

thanks
Hi
THe way to do it properly is to replace the cable ,NOT, put a joint in it ,the only thing joints are any good for is smoking;)
have fun
 
G

Grae79

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  • #8
a sound cable joint is the only alternative in some situations imho...domestic customers don't take too kindly to their shiny plastering being destroyed to replace a cable back to nearest accessory.

i quite often use crimps....as long as they're fitted correctly and the double sheathing's replaced with heat shrink or the like, then i don't see the problem. never had a problem with a crimped joint and the test results are always a-ok.
 
S

Shakey

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  • #9
Hi
THe way to do it properly is to replace the cable ,NOT, put a joint in it ,the only thing joints are any good for is smoking;)
have fun
here we go again Rum, a joint is a perfectly acceptable method and is expressly permitted in the regs

done two industrial supplies the other week.

one was a submain to a portacabin, one was a supply to some BS4343 outlets for industrial mixers

for both i run flat tw&E 6242Y inside the industrial unit, then changed to SWA for when it went outside in the yard

So how would you suggest I join the flat TW&E to the SWA? without using a joint?:p
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
here we go again Rum, a joint is a perfectly acceptable method and is expressly permitted in the regs

done two industrial supplies the other week.

one was a submain to a portacabin, one was a supply to some BS4343 outlets for industrial mixers

for both i run flat tw&E 6242Y inside the industrial unit, then changed to SWA for when it went outside in the yard

So how would you suggest I join the flat TW&E to the SWA? without using a joint?:p
Good morning shakey

If you bothered to read the origional question the guy asked ,he was on about burying a joint in the wall ,not using an adaptable box in an entirelly different situation

i dont think its good practice to plaster over a joint.and its not accesable,which i belive it should be ,if a domestic customer does not wish the decor spoiled ,then if you have any pride in your work ,tell him to get someone else to do it.:)
 
S

Shakey

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  • #11
Good morning shakey

If you bothered to read the origional question the guy asked ,he was on about burying a joint in the wall ,not using an adaptable box in an entirelly different situation

i dont think its good practice to plaster over a joint.and its not accesable,which i belive it should be ,if a domestic customer does not wish the decor spoiled ,then if you have any pride in your work ,tell him to get someone else to do it.:)
and good morning to you Rum

perhaps you should try reading the post as well

we were discussing making a joint by soldering or crimping, which CAN be buried in the wall, and does NOT have to be accessible for inspection and maintenance

why isnt it 'good practice'? why tell the customet to get someone else to do it?

I was amplifying the point that in some situtations joints are neccessary. i teach people to have a mental 'toolbox' so that they can adapt regs acceptable solutions to snags and problems they encounter

but of course you have to know the regs to be able to do that

i know you are a bit short on regs quals Rum old friend, i got a spare place on a 17th edition course i am running next week, ......fancy pitching up:rolleyes::p
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
and good morning to you Rum

perhaps you should try reading the post as well

we were discussing making a joint by soldering or crimping, which CAN be buried in the wall, and does NOT have to be accessible for inspection and maintenance

why isnt it 'good practice'? why tell the customet to get someone else to do it?

I was amplifying the point that in some situtations joints are neccessary. i teach people to have a mental 'toolbox' so that they can adapt regs acceptable solutions to snags and problems they encounter

but of course you have to know the regs to be able to do that

i know you are a bit short on regs quals Rum old friend, i got a spare place on a 17th edition course i am running next week, ......fancy pitching up:rolleyes::p
Yes i did read the post and i was also refering to putting a crimp in the wall ,and yes i am a bit rusty on the regs ,and quite honestly im appalled by the fact the IEE allow such a shoddy practice ,and also that the ECA inspectors condone it ,the NiCIEC i can understand,(there only interested in your subscription),in my opinion the practice of plastering over crimps is not "good practice" weather or not its allowed ,and anyone who did it if they worked for me ,would be asked to change it ,replacing the cable satifys the regs as well ,and i think offers a better job for the customers money ,and also helps you get some pleasure from knowing you have done a good job.not a lash up.:mad:

and also ,some crimp manuracturers ,used to print on the packet that the crimps shouldnt be used with solid cable,
and as for the 17th course ,im thinking about doing it ,but not untill next winter,so ill just have to stick to the old ways for now.
 
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S

Shakey

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  • #13
Rum do you have 2391? Do you do periodics at all?

You see, when i teach people installations and 2391 I teach them quite specifically to differentiate between 'deviations from good practice' and 'deviations from wiring regs'

I wonder, if you were inspecting, and you saw/suspected that there was crimped or soldered coneections in a wall - what code would you give it

Now i always teach people - if you are prepared to give something a code, you must also be able to back it up with the regulation number that has been contravened

putting crimped connections into walls is not the ideal solution, but it is a solution which is acceptable
 
R

rumrunner

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Rum do you have 2391? Do you do periodics at all?

You see, when i teach people installations and 2391 I teach them quite specifically to differentiate between 'deviations from good practice' and 'deviations from wiring regs'

I wonder, if you were inspecting, and you saw/suspected that there was crimped or soldered coneections in a wall - what code would you give it

Now i always teach people - if you are prepared to give something a code, you must also be able to back it up with the regulation number that has been contravened

putting crimped connections into walls is not the ideal solution, but it is a solution which is acceptable
as i said in my origional answer .i am appalled that this is now considered acceptable practice,
and i can think of a few companys where i have previously worked where it would be frowned upon ,if possably enough to lose you your job!

i supose in that case at a tribunul they would rule ,that its not bad practice,because it doesnt contravine any regs,so a case for unfair dismissal would be proved against the company, but,in that situation i cant see haw an inspector giving evedence could say it was good practice?

obviously the days when Electricians can call themselves craftsmen are over.
 
S

Shakey

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  • #15
as i said in my origional answer .i am appalled that this is now considered acceptable practice,
and i can think of a few companys where i have previously worked where it would be frowned upon ,if possably enough to lose you your job!

i supose in that case at a tribunul they would rule ,that its not bad practice,because it doesnt contravine any regs,so a case for unfair dismissal would be proved against the company, but,in that situation i cant see haw an inspector giving evedence could say it was good practice?

obviously the days when Electricians can call themselves craftsmen are over.
I am sorry Rum, but i absolutely disagree

surely the measure of a good craftsman is his knowledge of the limitations of his trade?

I would expect any craftsman worth his salt to know that:

A. A crimped or soldered hoint is acceptable in the regs (and I am pretty sure always has been - nothing to do with 16th or 17th edition)

B. It is not 'best practice' and you should never 'plan' to do it.

However, lets say you need to repair a damged cable or need to extend a cable, the entire upstairs is laminate flooring, the customer expressly does not want his laminate ripping up, or his newly decorated walls chased, and he asks "is there no other way to do it", well the answer has to be yes, and I would EXPECT a craftsman to know that;)
 
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