First Steps To Becoming A Domestic Electrician?

[davelee]

So guys I'm looking into becoming a sparky, domestic installer to start with to be precise, now I know a lot of you will be time served and shoot me down for asking but I'm 32 now and want to change my life plans regarding my job.

Now I've some experience in helping my buddy who did an apprenticeship and I'm about to purchase and study the yellow bible 17th edition regs book

what at would be the choice for the theory course you guys would recommend me look into first? I am currently working and I am not in the electricians trade so I have cash to put in and could book a few weeks off to do smaller courses

I have seen a combination of courses for example...

city and guilds 4141-01 looks basic but it's a qualification
city and guilds 2392-10 inspection and testing

i value all your help and input but I'd like to know what the minimum would be to get me into a job and then I would increase my knowledge and training further


thanks guys

 

[telectrix]

if you are currently in a reasonably secure job, consider doing the 2356/7 at college, evenings. OK, it will take you some time, but at the end of it, you'll get a JIB card which will enable you to gain employment on the industrial side. far better work than breaking you back and crippling your knees doing domestic crap.

 

[davelee]

Haha nice advice mate. I am in a pretty secure job currently yes

I have looked at that course only downside is.....

If you have previously completed the City & Guilds 236 Part 1 and 2, 2360 Part 1 and 2 or the 2352 Certificate in Electrical Installation and have electrical experience we can now offer this brand new NVQ qualification.

You must, of course, be working in the electrical industry to be a position to gather evidence of work you completed. The pace of completing this portfolio record of evidence is down to each individual candidate’s working circumstances and in some circumstances can be completed as quick as 3 months.


I do not work in electrickery currently. Nore do i have a previous qualification

From what i have read i could get 17th ed passed pretty quick. And another basic course to get onto the one that you suggested. But then i would need to be in employment. Now i have no problem starting out as a electricans mate on minimum wage as long as i am learning and getting where i want to be...

without blowing my own horn i have gotta be able to sell myself better than a kid who left school surley only there minimum wage is a bit lower than mine

 

[telectrix]

so you could do the 2356 9level 2 and 3 ) at college. it's only after that when you want to progress to the nvq3 that you need to be working in the industry.

 

[hightower]

2365 L2 & L3 Tel

 

[davelee]

Ya killing me hightower... £7300 for that one.... i could warrent the £1200 for the 1st suggestion

 

[hightower]

There's no easy path. I've laid out over 10 grand of my hard earned this past 18 months, and there's more to come still.

 

[davelee]

I do understand that bud. Im looking into student loans right now... pretty good to be fair if im eligible as i dont earn the 21k thats required to pay it back at the min anyway. 10k for me right now is 7months wages before tax ��

Just found a sat course for the one you sugested too and night school neer me too. Id just have to convince work i neeeeeeeed the time off for 2 years

 

[hightower]

I do understand that bud. Im looking into student loans right now... pretty good to be fair if im eligible as i dont earn the 21k thats required to pay it back at the min anyway. 10k for me right now is 7months wages before tax

Yep, if you really want to make the trade you've got to do what it takes - £10k wasn't easy for me or my wife to part with, but we're looking to the future and class it as an investment. Not sure how the loans work, but I know people who have gone on these domestic installer courses, and are no further forward. My college lecturer says he gets loads on the 2365 after they've done a domestic installer course, saying it was a waste of money and that they'd wished they'd have done it right to begin with.

My advice, £7300 is a lot of money. Find a local college, mine was £1500 for Level 2 and ~£4000 for Level 3, so £5500 total. You'll have one reasonably near you that offers it on a part time basis.

 

[telectrix]

good advice from ht there. 2365, level 2 and 3, don't be suckered in by these short corses. all you'll be good for is as a self-employed house basher competing with all the other hundreds that have parted with their hard-earned for a short course and are now working for peanuts dragging the industry into a rat race to the lowest common denominator. e.g. replacing CUs for £150. ............yes ht, it was a typo. my excuse being i've had no ale yet.

 

[davelee]

£150 quids not bad im currently on 8.50ph and work all sorts of shifts :lol:

 

[davelee]

I do want to better myself but looking online whats the basics you need to rewire install consumer units test and self cert

17th ed
Nic comp person part p
And a testing cert?

Surely it cant be that simple and i would NEED the bad boy for the gov bodies exam for part p?

 

[hightower]

I'm not sure you'll find somebody on here that will give you advice on taking the short cut. You said it yourself, most sparks here are time served and frown upon the 5 day courses. As for the £150 that Tel mentions, that price is including materials, so take £80-£100 out for those and tell us it's still a good wage.

 

[telectrix]

£150 quids not bad im currently on 8.50ph and work all sorts of shifts :lol:

out of that £150 ytou buy the CU, £100. van cost for the day £ 20. PL insurance, tools, Scam membership, meter, etc. equate to around £10/day. so a full days work for £20. better off at mcdonalds.

 

[davelee]

:1eye:
I dont want to "short cut" but if i can gain enough qulifications to become a electricans mate for a year or 2 id be sorted while i continue to train and gain more papers

You know as well as i do theres enough cowboys out there... shoulda seen my electrics here when i moved in came with a rewire new cu and a part p.... the lectrics wouldnt stay on more than a day without tripping ...

 

[7029 dave]

Well it sounds like the op has been given some good advice, but me thinks he is after the short cut quickest route, that some training providers are offering, and promise you the earth (no pun intended), OP take the night school route get your level 2, and then try an get a job as mate, suck up as much experience as you can in readiness for your NVQ level 3.

 

[davelee]

Its not a quick fix im after buddy. And ive taken everything on board, its why im here. but ....the less time i have off work the better. I dont get regular days and nights off or weekends thats my issue currently. The level 2 aint bad at all. Would that see me as a electricans mate tho by itself as i do lv3 and nvq?

 

[7029 dave]

Its not a quick fix im after buddy. And ive taken everything on board, its why im here. but ....the less time i have off work the better. I dont get regular days and nights off or weekends thats my issue currently. The level 2 aint bad at all. Would that see me as a electricans mate tho by itself as i do lv3 and nvq?

Yes why not.? I know quite a few guys working as mate's with level 2, they are on site in the industry, gaining experience for their practical. For site work you will need cscs card.

 

[davelee]

Cscs card isnt an issue as most mates are on bigger sites anyway.

 

[rolyberkin]

Cscs card isnt an issue as most mates are on bigger sites anyway.

The 2365 L2 and L3 can be done by distance learning for £3400 and paid in installments. So spread that over the 24 months it is likely to take you you could pay a set amount per month and do a proper qualification. The 2382 is a course in how to use the index of a book, it is required but will teach you nothing.

I have been doing my training with the below company who are very friendly and let you work at your own pace. There are study days and practicals which you will have to attend but overall it is achievable while you are still working in another area like I am.

http://www.thompsontrainingltd.com/

 

[Adam W]

For some reason a lot of people seem to naturally assume that electrical training is completely modular in that you learn how to do different things each week and you can just stop at any time and be 'allowed' to do everything you have learned up until that point.
That is not the case.
Also the path to becoming an electrician doesn't begin with 'domestic installer' changing sockets in houses before moving on to rewires or new builds or whatever to eventually becoming a commercial or industrial electrician - that would be like trying to work your way up to being a Michelin star chef by working in a sweet shop.

The way to learn the theory is to do the 2365 technical certificate, then complete the NVQ3 while working as a trainee or mate.
The 'qualification' for working as a mate is to have started the course and/or have someone who will give you work. Chances are a lot of employers will be put off by someone who has only done a load of 'expansion pack' courses without having even attempted to play the game.

Trying to tack a load of short courses together would be like trying to buy your first car from a scrapyard bit by bit - by the end of it all you'll have is a load of bits which may or may not fit together, there'll be a load of bits missing, and people will look at you as if you're a dick.

I don't think there will be many people here who will be able to give advice on short courses - either we scare them off, they realise we weren't just bitter because we took 3 years to do what they managed to compress into a few weeks, or they realise beginning a lucrative new career where they can be their own boss, pick and choose their hours and earn up to £50,747 isn't as easy as the training centre made it out to be when they sold them the course.

 

[davesparks]

£150 quids not bad im currently on 8.50ph and work all sorts of shifts :lol:

£150 is terrible as by the time you have deducted materials, expenses, overheads (insurance, fuel etc) notification fee and all the other stuff you'll be lucky to see £50 of that for a day's work plus paperwork time in the evening.


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[davesparks]

:1eye:
I dont want to "short cut" but if i can gain enough qulifications to become a electricans mate for a year or 2 id be sorted while i continue to train and gain more papers

You know as well as i do theres enough cowboys out there... shoulda seen my electrics here when i moved in came with a rewire new cu and a part p.... the lectrics wouldnt stay on more than a day without tripping ...

Electricians mate is a posh word for a labourer, you don't need any more qualifications than the ability to push a broom and carry heavy stuff around the site.
It is not a trainee position, although some electricians will treat the mates better than others do.


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[davelee]

Yeah ive come for advice and am asking the questions to see whats best to do. £50,747 would surely pay for the courses tho in no time unk:


.....also my first car was a scrapyard fiat uno

 

[davesparks]

Its not a quick fix im after buddy. And ive taken everything on board, its why im here. but ....the less time i have off work the better. I dont get regular days and nights off or weekends thats my issue currently. The level 2 aint bad at all. Would that see me as a electricans mate tho by itself as i do lv3 and nvq?

Then get yourself on the full courses or even better an apprenticeship. Anything else is a quick fix shortcut, regardless of how you manage to convince yourself otherwise.

Out of interest what job are you currently doing? And how long did it take you to train?




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[davelee]

£150 is terrible as by the time you have deducted materials, expenses, overheads (insurance, fuel etc) notification fee and all the other stuff you'll be lucky to see £50 of that for a day's work plus paperwork time in the evening.


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Yes mate but i take home not a whole lot more than 50 quid a day now as a security maniger at a supermarket
I would happily labour for someone who was paying me even minimum wage as long as i was learning a trade.

 

[davelee]

Then get yourself on the full courses or even better an apprenticeship. Anything else is a quick fix shortcut, regardless of how you manage to convince yourself otherwise.

Out of interest what job are you currently doing? And how long did it take you to train?




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I did an apprenticeship in engineering when i left school took me 3 years to complete to nvqlv3 including cnc programming. I got out of engineering tho a few years ago. Its starting to go abroad too much. I am now a security maniger at a supermarket that took me under a year to get nvq lv2 in retail security and helped me progress

 

[Andy78]

Yeah ive come for advice and am asking the questions to see whats best to do. £50,747 would surely pay for the courses tho in no time unk:


.....also my first car was a scrapyard fiat uno

If any course is advertising itself by dangling a carrot of promised earnings in front of you, you can almost be sure of two things. 1, the course is not the one you want to embark on a serious career as an electrician, 2, the figure is most likely plucked out of thin air.

 

[davesparks]

I did an apprenticeship in engineering when i left school took me 3 years to complete to nvqlv3 including cnc programming. I got out of engineering tho a few years ago. Its starting to go abroad too much. I am now a security maniger at a supermarket that took me under a year to get nvq lv2 in retail security and helped me progress

Ok, and if someone came to you asking about a quicker/shorter way of achieving that same engineering qualification what kind of answer would you give them?


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[davelee]

Ok, and if someone came to you asking about a quicker/shorter way of achieving that same engineering qualification what kind of answer would you give them?


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Id say don t bother it was a waste of time and almost useless in this county now.. the cnc would be worth doing but i could teach that in a few days its simple

 

[davesparks]

Yes mate but i take home not a whole lot more than 50 quid a day now as a security maniger at a supermarket
I would happily labour for someone who was paying me even minimum wage as long as i was learning a trade.

You won't learn much of a trade by labouring.
The apprentices will be learning the trade and the labourers will be cleaning up their mess.


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[davelee]

You won't learn much of a trade by labouring.
The apprentices will be learning the trade and the labourers will be cleaning up their mess.


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I kinda get that but if there taking on labourer they wouldnt have an apprentice would they? I wouldnt wanna blow my own trupet but im a fast learner and ive gone for city amd guilds qualifications in the jobs ive been in to further better myself. I am keen and i have a thurst for knowledge and want to know how and more importantly why things are done the way they are

 

[davesparks]

I kinda get that but if there taking on labourer they wouldnt have an apprentice would they? I wouldnt wanna blow my own trupet but im a fast learner and ive gone for city amd guilds qualifications in the jobs ive been in to further better myself. I am keen and i have a thurst for knowledge and want to know how and more importantly why things are done the way they are

Yes they would have apprentices and labourers. Apprentices are not labourers and should never be treated as such.
The fact that you have suggested an apprentice could be treated as a labourer inspires me to give you no help at all.


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[Adam W]

You won't learn much of a trade by labouring.
The apprentices will be learning the trade and the labourers will be cleaning up their mess.


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I think it depends on the site and that person's situation - I couldn't get an apprenticeship so had to go the adult trainee way gaining experience working as a mate. On a few sites I was paired up with an electrician to learn stuff, while there were other mates who were literally just given the labouring jobs.
Other sites I was treated like crap.

 

[Adam W]

.....also my first car was a scrapyard fiat uno

Did you save up and buy the whole car or did you try to buy a bit of it with each pay packet?

 

[davelee]

It was £100 that was 15years ago it ran and was roadworth...complete...maybe not i did have to do the head gasket on it tho....:45:

 

[davelee]

I think it depends on the site and that person's situation - I couldn't get an apprenticeship so had to go the adult trainee way gaining experience working as a mate. On a few sites I was paired up with an electrician to learn stuff, while there were other mates who were literally just given the labouring jobs.
Other sites I was treated like crap.

But now your qualified and loving it? How old were you went you started?

 

[Adam W]

It was £100 that was 15years ago it ran and was roadworth...complete...maybe not i did have to do the head gasket on it tho....:45:

So what you did there was you bought the car, then you bought an add-on to enhance it, you didn't buy a panel, a seat or a bit of the engine as and when you could, otherwise it would have cost a lot more, taken longer, and you may have had a load of parts missing at the end of it without realising it.

What I was getting at is it's the same with electrical courses - before you have anything you can add to you need to do the main course (2365), which will include everything contained in courses such as the 2392 and 2393, but it will relate better to everything else you're learning, for example you'll learn how to install circuits and learn how to test those circuits, not one or the other, and you'll learn how to install to regulations, not just hear some guy standing up and talking about them.

 

[Adam W]

But now your qualified and loving it? How old were you went you started?

I was 25 when I started. I was earning about £6.50/hr in a call centre which I hated. They wouldn't give me Mondays off to go to college so I told them to shove it and I did washing up in a restaurant for the first year until I could get work as an electricians mate, for £7.50/hr.
It wasn't easy, in fact when the recession hit it was particularly hard, but I stuck with it and did everything properly. It certainly wasn't a 'fast-track', it took me twice as long as an apprenticeship because I didn't have a company to guide me through it, but it gave me a greater sense of satisfaction at the end of it.