Help required on behalf of Michelle, Problems with work done by a contractor.

[High Tower]

Over to you Michelle

 

[trev]

Hmmmm? what;s going on here HT?

 

[High Tower]

Newbie, wasnt sure how to start a new thread so i started one for them, just waiting for the op to come along and post their story mate.

 

[Guest55]

Cross dressing split personality ?

 

[trev]

Ahh I see
Well welcome aboard Michelle for when you eventually arrive

 

[Guest55]

Newbie, wasnt sure how to start a new thread so i started one for them, just waiting for the op to come along and post their story mate.

How come youre not just helping them direct ? a friend of yours out side the forum ?

 

[High Tower]

How come youre not just helping them direct ? a friend of yours out side the forum ?

Thought i would let them post the story on here save explaining it twice, no im just helping a newbie.

 

[mickys86]

Well that's very decent of ya!

 

[Guest55]

If they dont show it will look like you're just talking to yourself lol.

 

[High Tower]

If they dont show it will look like you're just talking to yourself lol.

And how is that any different to normal?

 

[trev]

No sign of anyone called Michelle on the current online members HT. Are you sure there's not some cross dressing alter ego thing going on mate?
If there is it's nothing to be ashamed of, we will still respect you as much if not more.
It takes courage

 

[Michelle Baird]

No sign of anyone called Michelle on the current online members HT. Are you sure there's not some cross dressing alter ego thing going on mate?
If there is it's nothing to be ashamed of, we will still respect you as much if not more.
It takes courage

Hi there, I am Michelle and HT was helping me out as I've been pretty clueless on this forum.
Please let me explain that I'm not an electrician, but am a bit unhappy about what has happened in my kitchen. I had hoped to seek some advice and joined the forum as a result.
Ok, down to it.... I've just had a kitchen installed. The guy who did it said that he was Part P registered (no idea what that really means, but accepted it as being fit and proper to do the job). Aside from taking 3 weeks to do the job, he has signed off part of what he has done (but not all of it) on a certificate. I've posted the photos on facebook of the electrics (and other things) which is open to public access - my username is Michelle Baird. - sorry I digress, off on a personal crusade now.

The part P certificate I placed below the hanging-off-the-wall, live sockets and photographed as I think the world should see.
Is there a register of Part P certificated persons? I've looked on the Competent Person's List (better late than never eh??) but I can't find his name on there.

The cooker has been moved about 3m away from its original siting but he left the switch in situ in its old place ie 3m away from the cooker - not sure if that's ok?
I suppose what I am saying is that as the rest of the kitchen has been a bodge-up (although no-one is going to die from a poorly fitted kitchen), I am concerned now as to the safety of the electrics or if they're done right. Who do I go to to check his competence, if the job is done right, if it is safe?

Thanks so much for your help and especially to High Tower for his kind assistance.

 

[Michelle Baird]

Photo of the cert below certificated work.

 

[Mr Mike]

Good morning Michelle and welcome.
Have you expressed your concerns to the electrician and what was his response. I dont understand why he signed off only some of his work, strange. Did he do all the kitchen installation ie, plumbing, electrical work, joinery, plastering ect.
At the end of the day I am sure Mr HT will direct you to a happy conclusion, he is a good fellow !!

 

[TPES]

I doubt very much he is a registered electrician, the certificate he has used is one you can buy over a counter at a wholesalers, it is not one from any part P scheme provider. Also this work is notifiable to your local authority, any registered electrician would of done this for you as part of the job, did you see this "electrician" with any test instruments? Any meters to test his work? Were you about when he wrote the certificate out?

All this to one side... This is not to say your kitchen electrics are unsafe and you are at any risk, 3m for a cooker isolator is too far in my opinion. Also has he left the sockets back thinking someone is about to tile the wall? Although this is no excuse for not screwing them back

 

[Michelle Baird]

I doubt very much he is a registered electrician, the certificate he has used is one you can buy over a counter at a wholesalers, it is not one from any part P scheme provider. Also this work is notifiable to your local authority, any registered electrician would of done this for you as part of the job, did you see this "electrician" with any test instruments? Any meters to test his work? Were you about when he wrote the certificate out?

All this to one side... This is not to say your kitchen electrics are unsafe and you are at any risk, 3m for a cooker isolator is too far in my opinion. Also has he left the sockets back thinking someone is about to tile the wall? Although this is no excuse for not screwing them back

Thank you for your comments Mr Mike, I appreciate your time. He did know that we weren't tiling as we asked him if he would sort the walls ready for painting (due to the upstands).
Thanks for the advice re the certification. so it basically means nothing? I wasn't there when he did the checks, he did it when I was at work.

He is a kitchen fitter first and foremost but claimed to be qualified as a plumber and Part P certified for electrics. Apparently been in the trade for 32 years......

 

[Michelle Baird]

sorry TPES and Mr Mike. I'm confused.

The guy did everything joinery, plumbing, plastering and kitchen fitting.

 

[nickblake]

Hi Michelle does he have a regestration number on his certificate or state Elecsa Napit NICEIC etc if you are not happy it could well be an idea to contact your local trading standards , you could always say where your from im sure one of the forum members may be able to pop round, High tower is a good guy

 

[nickblake]

sorry TPES and Mr Mike. I'm confused.

The guy did everything joinery, plumbing, plastering and kitchen fitting.

Ah right have you had a seperate certificate from a trade body as ive mentioned thats a notification certificate and i doubt he's regestered so should be reported

 

[Michelle Baird]

Ah right have you had a seperate certificate from a trade body as ive mentioned thats a notification certificate and i doubt he's regestered so should be reported

I've had no other certificates, apart from a Corgi gas installation certificate. Who do I report him to? Local Authority Building Control?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As stated this is notifyable under part P by law......if he hasnt done so that is not to say what you have is dangerous.....it may be a proper job but just not notified...(sockets not screwed back is poor though)...there are other considerations,such as bonding and RCD protection which should have been brought up to scratch by your electrician as well. You need to get a competant electrician to check the work before panicking......may be someone on here is nearby?

 

[TPES]

Usually people that do everything in a kitchen them self is because there trying to save money on not getting the correct tradesmen in to do the job properly, this in turn brings his price to you down. Did you find his total price for this kitchen was quite abit less than anyone else you had a quote from?

 

[Michelle Baird]

I live just outside Worcester, don't know where anyone is.

Think I will take a trip to South Worcestershire BC this am and just see where the land lies.

Not in a state of panic yet, just feeling a bit brassed off at being 'had over' by a lying hound!

 

[Michelle Baird]

Usually people that do everything in a kitchen them self is because there trying to save money on not getting the correct tradesmen in to do the job properly, this in turn brings his price to you down. Did you find his total price for this kitchen was quite abit less than anyone else you had a quote from?

Actually no. He was the middle quote that we had and was 'recommended' by a friend. £2K to fit out the kitchen is about what we expected.

 

[Plonker 3]

Think I will take a trip to South Worcestershire BC this am and just see where the land lies.

Judging by other posts on here regards this I would save the fuel as you will get no where with them. It may be worth contacting trading standards though as he may have a history of doing this and be making a file on him.

 

[Plonker 3]

here you go several different LABC involoved, none are intrested

http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...dangerous-work-long-story-but-worth-read.html

 

[stef]

I've had no other certificates, apart from a Corgi gas installation certificate. Who do I report him to? Local Authority Building Control?

Hi Michelle,
Corgi is no longer, this should be now Gas Save, that changed some years ago my
gas fitter told me. Sounds as if this chap isn't registered with anything. Can you find him listed in the Yellow Pages?

 

[Michelle Baird]

stupidly, I accepted him on recommendation. Guess I am going to pay the price on that one.....

 

[stef]

Not neccessarily. Contact trading standards, report him for undertaking LAB notifyable work without being registered. It is a criminal offence to endager someone's life. Tip: watch cowboy builders on 5. But trading standards will help you futher.

 

[Michelle Baird]

Not neccessarily. Contact trading standards, report him for undertaking LAB notifyable work without being registered. It is a criminal offence to endager someone's life. Tip: watch cowboy builders on 5. But trading standards will help you futher.

Thank you for your help....

 

[stef]

Thank you for your help....

You are welcome, that' why we (the electricians forum) are here for.

 

[StuSpiers]

How long ago was the work actually done?
Part-p certificates can take a couple of weeks to arrive in the post.
but looking at the certificate you do have it doesn't look very professional.

I am in malvern if you would like to get it checked over.
I am a qualified electrician and Electrical contracting is my only trade.
I am also part-p registered (because I have to be)

 

[Michelle Baird]

lesson to self "find the forum first and seek advice prior to... not for mop-up"

 

[Plonker 3]

lesson to self "find the forum first and seek advice prior to... not for mop-up"

No not at all, you were recommended to use him that usually is the best way to find a tradesman. Don't blame yourself for this it is solely the person who carried out the works fault.

 

[Michelle Baird]

How long ago was the work actually done?
Part-p certificates can take a couple of weeks to arrive in the post.
but looking at the certificate you do have it doesn't look very professional.

I am in malvern if you would like to get it checked over.
I am a qualified electrician and Electrical contracting is my only trade.
I am also part-p registered (because I have to be)

Just been on to Citizens Advice Consumer Direct, they have advised me to ring the NICEIC to see if he is registered. I 'know' he isn't but it will be good to get it confirmed. Next I need to get a registered electrician to check and certify (read into that rip it out and do it properly) so I will go through the proper channels and then seek to get it sorted professionally.

 

[High Tower]

Michelle, PM me his trading name and details and I will find out if he's registered with any of the different schemes, as there are a few of them not just NICEIC.

Please don't be upset with yourself, you have done exactly the right thing. We always tell people to go with a recommendation, it's normally the best way!. It seems as though he is working beyond his knowledge and experience!!.

Is it just the sockets not pinned back and the cooker or do you have other concerns??

 

[Mr Mike]

Just been on to Citizens Advice Consumer Direct, they have advised me to ring the NICEIC to see if he is registered. I 'know' he isn't but it will be good to get it confirmed. Next I need to get a registered electrician to check and certify (read into that rip it out and do it properly) so I will go through the proper channels and then seek to get it sorted professionally.

Michelle; dont be too harsh on yourself. The good news is you have some new friends from the electricians forums who will help you to a safe and happy conclusion.

 

[StuSpiers]

Makes us angry when customers (you) do the right thing and then still find a bady

regardless of his registration body he should always be listed here:

Competent Persons Register | Home

But that isn't unfortunately a guarantee of quality

 

[Michelle Baird]

I've checked with the NICEIC; Nappir; Alexa and he is not registered with any of them.

Shall I name and shame or can I get into trouble for that?? GRRR!

 

[Michelle Baird]

Right you lovely people, I need to go to work so will be back this evening. Citizen's Advice Consumer Group have told trading standards so he can be checked out a little more thoroughly.

 

[Strima]

Name and shame, better the get him known as a cowboy/illegal installer than let him carry on and potentially kill someone.

And you CANNOT get in trouble for it.

 

[Guest55]

The first thing you will be asked when complaining to any organization is....
"Have you contacted the tradesman with your concerns and given him opportunity to put matters right ?"

Have you ?
I understand you want closure on youre kitchen job but putting things into perspective , unscrewed sockets isnt a life or death issue , plus you have recieved a certificate of some sorts which is a start. Cooker switch should be within 2 mtrs of cooker but maybe there was a reason it wasnt moved that hasnt been explained as yet.
You really need to attempt sort things out with this guy first.

 

[Guest55]

And i'd refrain from the mud-slinging by other posters when we only have one side of the story.

 

[Guest55]

but looking at the certificate you do have it doesn't look very professional

What the hell has the brand / format of the certificate got to do with anything ?
The only thing important is the information on it.
I use the standard IET certs printed off the computer and then hand filled in because buying booklets all the time costs a fortune , clearly this make me a cowboy.
Lost count number of the times i've seen fancy NIC certs that are pure garbage.

 

[Des 56]

What the hell has the brand / format of the certificate got to do with anything ?
The only thing important is the information on it.
I use the standard IET certs printed off the computer and then hand filled in because buying booklets all the time costs a fortune , clearly this make me a cowboy.
Lost count number of the times i've seen fancy NIC certs that are pure garbage.

I think biff55 has rightly voiced a little caution into this thread
I have just read this thread and am also a little concerned about the instant justice

He may very well be guilty of all that he is being charged.on the other hand there may be concerns.eg. the sockets eased off the wall,that have justifiable reason for doing so

The certificate has been condemned because it is not a pretty colour or has no scam logo added
If authentic and proper certificates are the order of the day,you could all start by ditching those remodelled certificates constructed and tarted up by the schemes and stick to the IEE genuine article,cheaper but more appropriate

Full facts,then judgement
Even if all that he is accused of is proven,there will be no restoritive justice,the domestic sector is in such a mess that none want the responsibility of policing such a cobbled together piece of building regulation garbage and others like Labc and Trading standards will only act when pushed along by eager victims

 

[StuSpiers]

The lady has already confirmed this guy is not part-p.

And Biff if you are going to quote one line out of a whole post then get the context right, - I opened that post with a line of caution suggesting perhaps that the part-p cert had not been recieved yet.

And I hate to sound like regulation reg, but loose sockets hanging off wall is basic barriers and enclosers - eg: LIFE & DEATH.

Love or hate part-p which yes I hate, if I have to do it then so does everyone else.

 

[Guest55]

Fair comment Stu but not being part p doesnt mean his certs arent done correctly.

 

[drew35]

Jesus I wonder if you would have all fallen over yourselves so much to help a male?

Ignorance is never an excuse, google is there for everybody to use so is the telephone. We live in a world of con artists, why take anyone at their word? Five minutes on line and there are various website detailing how to find reliable, qualified trades people.

Its not that I'm unsympathetic but when they're is so much info out there that is easily accessable, why take a chance? All you can do now is what should have been done first, find someone who is qualified and pay the going rate, lesson learned.

 

[StuSpiers]

Fair comment Stu but not being part p doesnt mean his certs arent done correctly.

I completely agree, and yes for small jobs I use IET hand filled certs myself (for larger ones I have my company branded ones) so I guess that line I wrote was a little unjustified.

At the end of the day I blame part-p for this whole mess, it has just confused everyone customers and tradesmen alike.

 

[Guest55]

Very good point made by drew ^^^.

But the tradesman was hired after a recommendation by someone else , so i still think the opportunity should be given to the guy to deal with the customers concerns.
A picture of a cert under a socket proves absolutely nothing in my mind.