No Certificate For New Electrics And Local Authority Demands

[telectrix]

They seem to know as much about the regs as many ....

but they allow plumbers and builders to get away with murder.

 

[Guest55]

this sort of offialdom nonsense makes me puke.
theyre totally clueless.

 

[Guitarist]

i can't understand why they want any certificate if the electrical work is non-notifiable. the home owner should have a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate, but that's all.

It sounds to me like they are saying that it needs certifying by the electrician that carried out the work, not notifying. However, as he is incommunicado, this cannot occur. Therefore, they have to step in and make sure it is "up to regs", hence the fee.
Surely, if he invoiced you, you know his address. Pop and find out what's going on.

 

[TMess]

As these seem to be" additions " this will not be notifiable. As has been said if no new circuits have been added or the Circuit protective device has not been altered it will not be notifiable.

Planning Portal - Approved Document P

Particularly read the parts on non notifiable work. This is the document that the LABC must work to. The rest is folklore.

The piece relevant to us would be:

"Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation and consists of:

• Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit [Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.]
• Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit [Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.]"

However, as the ring was extended around the room and thus new cable was run to these sockets, does this not go against the following:

"Replacing any fixed electrical equipment (for example, socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses) which does not include the provision of any new fixed cabling."

 

[morph]

i live near you i will do it ha ha

 

[Guest55]

It sounds to me like they are saying that it needs certifying by the electrician that carried out the work, not notifying. However, as he is incommunicado, this cannot occur. Therefore, they have to step in and make sure it is "up to regs", hence the fee.

not having a go at you , but thats not the point.
the work can be verified as satisfactory by any competant person - for alot less than nearly £400.

 

[TMess]

Are you sure he was NIC registered? It seems loads of people claim to be, and even put the logo on their stationary and van, but it turns out they're not.

Yes. A call to NICEIC this afternoon confirmed he is 'still' registered.

 

[Guitarist]

not having a go at you , but thats not the point.
the work can be verified as satisfactory by any competant person - for alot less than nearly £400.

I agree biff. Just trying to make sense of their logic here. The law as it stands states that you cannot certify someone else's work (unless you are the QS of that person), so if BC feel they have to follow that rule then in their opinion they have to inspect it themselves.

 

[TMess]

to be honest , the battle with the council needs to taken up by the property owner
theres only so much you the contractor can do.
have planning fees been paid for the conversion ?
if they have i wouldnt be handing over a penny more.

Planning was not required for the work. However Building Control was, which we paid for and organised on behalf of the client.

 

[baldelectrician]

I can't believe the fiasco that is Part P

Up in Scotland the fees are set Scotland wide and the Buliding Standards accept NICEIC or SELECT (and sometimes other) certificates

 

[ruston]

The piece relevant to us would be:

"Work that is not in a kitchen or special location and does not involve a special installation and consists of:

• Adding lighting points (light fittings and switches) to an existing circuit [Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.]
• Adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit [Only if the existing circuit protective device is suitable and provides protection for the modified circuit, and other relevant safety provisions are satisfactory.]"

However, as the ring was extended around the room and thus new cable was run to these sockets, does this not go against the following:

"Replacing any fixed electrical equipment (for example, socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses) which does not include the provision of any new fixed cabling."

IF you altered the circuit then that s a different situation . Did you alter it:devilish:.

 

[TMess]

i can't understand why they want any certificate if the electrical work is non-notifiable. the home owner should have a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate, but that's all.

But can anyone issue a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate, even if they had not undertaken the installation themselves?

 

[morph]

But can anyone issue a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate, even if they had not undertaken the installation themselves?

technically no !

 

[TMess]

IF you altered the circuit then that s a different situation . Did you alter it:devilish:.

Here is a very rough sketch of what work was carried out. Is this classed as 'alteration' in terms of the Part P regulations?

 

[Guitarist]

But can anyone issue a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate, even if they had not undertaken the installation themselves?

As I have already said, I think this is what BC are getting testy about. Any competent person can carry out non-notifiable work, but it must be that person who certifies it. As this has not happened, they want to check it themselves.

 

[Guest55]

However Building Control was, which we paid for and organised on behalf of the client.

really ???
then you've already paid the fees and all that is required now is the paperwork.
if it was me , i'd get a EICR done for the circuits that were worked on by a part p spark.
give report to homeowner and get him to hand it over to BC and do nothing.
you've complied with regs so sit back and let them take the next move.

 

[TMess]

As I have already said, I think this is what BC are getting testy about. Any competent person can carry out non-notifiable work, but it must be that person who certifies it. As this has not happened, they want to check it themselves.

In which case, do they have a leg to stand on in terms of forcing us to use their own sub-contractors and charging a ridiculous amount for the 'privilege'?

And when you say "that person who certifies it", are you referring to issuing a Part P cert or something along the lines of an EICR?

 

[morph]

dont even need to be a part p spark , cant see why this has become such a big deal
as said get a EICR done

 

[Bradzz]

Building control have to foot the bill not the house holder. Section 1.26 of part P says this. but for some reason when you download this its blank just in that section ? look on line at this link
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADP_2006.pdf



page 11
bottom right

 

[TMess]

really ???
then you've already paid the fees and all that is required now is the paperwork.
if it was me , i'd get a EICR done for the circuits that were worked on by a part p spark.
give report to homeowner and get him to hand it over to BC and do nothing.
you've complied with regs so sit back and let them take the next move.

If at all possible, we would rather get everything signed off on behalf of the client (homeowner), as that is what we agreed to do and is part of our entire building service.

Can we just confirm that the electrical work is in deed not notifiable? (I have attached a diagram above)