NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC Blackmail

[brizospark]

I'm getting really fed up hearing from councils/customers/builders etc that they are unwilling to use me as I am not NICEIC registers. These people don't even know what it means to be NIC registered they all seem to be under the impression that if you are not registered you should not be carrying out/certifying any electrical work.

At the end of the day NICEIC and all these other schemes are self made, self profiteering organisations taking a cut of sparks hard earned income.

Really pi**ed off hearing it, I know for a fact I am more competent and qualified than half these cowboy's running about with the NIC sticker on their van.

It should be made clear that as long as electricians are carrying out work complying with the most recent IEE regulations and using test sheets based on the IEE sheets then they are quite entitled to carry out and certify work without lining these extertionists pockets every year!

 

[Pete999]

Don't you mean extortionists / only joking, yes agree wholeheartedly money grabin twits

 

[brizospark]

Sorry excuse the typo

 

[Pete999]

It's hard to spell right when you are ticked off

 

[Guest55]

you have 2 options.........

use your head to make the business decision and join the nic

follow your heart and make a stand on principle and quit all schemes.

neither are easy choices are they ?
but the later is gathering momentum on this forum as far as i can tell.
;-)

 

[Chris sparky]

I get this from my other halfs old man. He's a building surveyor. He loves telling me whenever is see him that i should be NIC. One day i might remove his lips.

 

[Welchyboy1]

Unfortunatly its a nessacary evil unless you dont mind having a glass ceiling above your business

id rather not pay out the grand every year but hey ho!

 

[Redvanman]

If your losing jobs because your not a member of the NIC then the obvious answer is join them.
you can complain all you want about the schemes but they are not going any where soon so for all these groups signing petitions etc they really are wasting their time.
But remember if you do leave the schemes then you will have to get a third party to sign off your work and some of the prices I've been told its cheaper to be a member

 

[brizospark]

That's the thing though it is not a necessary evil, or it shouldn't be, a necessary evil is something like council tax the nic has morphed into a necessary evil through pure manipulation. There is nothing stopping me, you or anyone else starting a similar scheme. People should be made clear that it is qualifications and experience that count not pound not a red sticker

 

[GMES]

I don't rate the nic or council sparks, I am sure there are decent ones amongst them, but I will give you a prime example of their skills.
I will try to keep it short! I got a phone call from an old friend before xmas, telling me is mum and dad ( both in their early 90's ) had just moved in to a sheltered house type accommodation and she needed her old cooker connecting in as obviously there wasn't one in the new flat.
so I meet my mate at the flat and as we are entering a guy and woman, both early 20's are leaving, I notice the nic logos on the t shirts . they inform my friend they have just carried out a electrical safety test ( EICR I said / oh yeah that's it came the reply ) so in I got to fit new cooker!. switch isolation switch off tested the bull nose and it was still live, turned out the switch was faulty so my mate got on the phone and explained about the safety test that was still warm and how I was there and what the fault was. I could tell he was getting fobbed off so I took the phone and add a few choice words with the gimp at the other end explaining about carrying at at least a functional test on the switch . and then I pointed out that they only been there an hour so couldn't have done a proper test . and within 20 minutes they were back including some --- in a suit to put it right. What a bunch of t.ts.

 

[brizospark]

That's utter nonsense redvanman there is no requirement for work to be signed off by a member if such a scheme if you are not registered. Show me where in the regs it states this.

I don't know where you heard this but you have been misinformed

 

[brizospark]

What gets me is that there are certain people making a very good living out of sparkys pockets for going around assessing to see if they meet THEIR standards. These people are no better than those living off the state!!!

 

[Pete999]

--- in a suit nice, but I sympathize with you mate perhaps breasts in a blazer would be more appropriate for those who are pc

 

[brizospark]

£1000 a year for what? Seriously what do you get for shelling this out? A technical helpline? Don't need one I have a copy of the regs. Absolute Corruption

 

[GMES]

--- in a suit nice, but I sympathize with you mate perhaps breasts in a blazer would be more appropriate for those who are pc

Apologies Pete yes I need to think before I type, although it is quite mild compared to the comments I made down the phone to them.

 

[Redvanman]

That's utter nonsense redvanman there is no requirement for work to be signed off by a member if such a scheme if you are not registered. Show me where in the regs it states this.

I don't know where you heard this but you have been misinformed

So if you have wired an extension and the builder wants it signed off then what happens.
Part P is a legal requirement and it clearly states on the first page that if you are not a registered person then you can use a registered third party or the building control body who intern use a registered third party

 

[brizospark]

There is no LEGAL requirement to be registered with a scheme in order to issue an electrical installation certificate for work which you have carried out

 

[Pete999]

Apologies Pete yes I need to think before I type, although it is quite mild compared to the comments I made down the phone to them.

I was jokin mate bloody good job I didn't speak to the parasites, sorry for the rant

 

[dazza1981]

It is a load of twaddle, i do quite a few private jobs now days and im not with a scam either.
5 year apprenticeship plus did my 2391 yet still expected to join a scheme and line there pockets..... dont bloody think so!!!
My attitude to it now is why should i turn down the odd private job because if i dont do the work then john wayne rides in on his horse after 5 weeks of training and does it anyway with no testing done what so ever!!!
At the very least i know ive carried out all testing and customer can rest assured its a neat job and above all SAFE!!!!

 

[Guest55]

So if you have wired an extension and the builder wants it signed off then what happens.
Part P is a legal requirement and it clearly states on the first page that if you are not a registered person then you can use a registered third party or the building control body who intern use a registered third party

building notification is the legal responsibility of the property owner , not the electrical contractor
and anyone can issue electrical certs.

 

[brizospark]

Thanks for clarifying biff

 

[Pete999]

Rooster rip off you mean mate I'm vexed, so vexed I could almost pack it in, seen some of the crap installed by 5 week winkers not all but the majority

 

[Redvanman]

There is no LEGAL requirement to be registered with a scheme in order to issue an electrical installation certificate for work which you have carried out

I didn't say that you had to join a scheme for legal reasons just that the Part P is a legal requirement.
As I said it is cheaper to be a member than pay over the top prices for a third party unless you only do one or two Part P jobs a year

 

[Redvanman]

It is a load of twaddle, i do quite a few private jobs now days and im not with a scam either.
5 year apprenticeship plus did my 2391 yet still expected to join a scheme and line there pockets..... dont bloody think so!!!
My attitude to it now is why should i turn down the odd private job because if i dont do the work then john wayne rides in on his horse after 5 weeks of training and does it anyway with no testing done what so ever!!!
At the very least i know ive carried out all testing and customer can rest assured its a neat job and above all SAFE!!!!

Are your jobs notifiable ?

 

[Silly Sausage]

building notification is the legal responsibility of the property owner , not the electrical contractor
and anyone can issue electrical certs.

I hope Murdoch doesn't see this. :smilielol5:

 

[Redvanman]

building notification is the legal responsibility of the property owner , not the electrical contractor
and anyone can issue electrical certs.

Your absolutely correct but do you tell your customers that they have to arrange for the Part P compliance at they own cost

 

[Guest55]

i dont do domestic work period , so of no relevence to me.

but the law allows the consumer freedom of choice on whom they employ , and thats the important thing.

 

[Brightspark2]

If your losing a lot of work because of it then bite your lip and join...

Companies feel more comfortable if a contractor is an NIC member as it means someone is verifying there work complies with regulations and is to a high standard (or susposed to be (so hold your fire))

You can argue with them if you want but likely you'll just lose the work and they will get a contractor who is registered...

Our registration pays for itself as we wouldn't have 75% of the work if we were not registered (we don't do domestic)


As biff says it's a buisness decision...

 

[Guest55]

I hope Murdoch doesn't see this. :smilielol5:

why is that ?

 

[Silly Sausage]

why is that ?

According to M (apologies if it isn't him!), on previous threads, doing notifiable work and leaving it to the customer the responsibility of notifying it, is tantamount to Fraud! Even if you inform the customer of the fact.

 

[Redvanman]

I'd be quite interested in how many people have moaned about this and have left their scheme.
Has it affected they work (not that they would tell you )
You hear guys banging on about it all the time
You've got to remember NIC, ECA have been around for years with there approved scheme and I can't remember guys moaning about that but you still had to be a member to get the big contracts.
Its the government of the day that organises Part P

 

[Guest55]

.....tantamount to Fraud! Even if you inform the customer of the fact.

why is it fraud if the client is aware of their responsibilities but they still choose to hire a contractor who isnt member of a scheme ?
sorry , dont see any crime there.

 

[baldsparkies]

The NIC or any other governing body are there for part P compliance certs cus notification is cheaper that way.
So domestic installer full scope is good enough for all domestic work.
as far as commercial is concerned. Most of the Facility Managers we work for use us because we are experienced old farts with JIB approved electrician status, and electrical site manager status.
NIC get £400 a year to eat my jammy dodgers and drink my coffee. But they also put up with me lecturing them when they come to asses each year, so its six of one half dozen of the other.
When they insist we should go approved with the experience and type of work we cover. We say No, why bother,dont want to. They say we would get more work that way, I know thats crap because no NIC person has ever given us a commercial job lead.
Join the NICEIC by all means it helps get your foot in the door.
But its you, your experience, and the quality of your installs that will get you work.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I get this from my other halfs old man. He's a building surveyor. He loves telling me whenever is see him that i should be NIC. One day i might remove his lips.

here...theres a cost effective solution for this:

 

[guest119]

The NICEIC was a regstered non profit charity, is that not still the case?

Boydy

 

[R G]

The NICEIC was a regstered non profit charity, is that not still the case?

Boydy

Charity begins at home ,,,,,,Their home,,,,,lol...

 

[trev]

More fuel to the fire of the FB campaign as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Octopus]

building notification is the legal responsibility of the property owner , not the electrical contractor and anyone can issue electrical certs.

Sorry mate but you are wrong:

Extract from the latest version of Part P:

"Section 3: Certification, Inspection and Testing

General

3.1 For notifiable electrical installation work, one of the following three procedures must be used to certify that the work complies with the requirements set out in the Building Regulations.

a. Self-certification by a registered competent person.

b. Third-Party certification by a registered third party certifier.

c. Certification by a building control body."

Which I read as the installer is responsible

 

[Octopus]

I hope Murdoch doesn't see this. :smilielol5:

he, he. Too late

 

[Octopus]

In Court, when you are being cross examined you will be asked about Part P, which you will acknowledge understanding of as you claim to be a competent person.

The next question will be why didn't you disclose this requirement to the homeowner?

Then you are bxllxcked.