Would you put a wall switch in a bathroom

[Redvanman]

Only if it's outside the zones that is

 

[KFH]

It depends on the bathroom but generally no. Most people want to see a pull switch and believe that you should not have a wall mounted switch in a bathroom so putting a wall switch in would be more trouble than it is worth.

But in a larger bathroom where there is no risk from condensation getting onto/into the switch I would do it if requested.

 

[R G]

I have seen a pir sensor the same size as a 1 gang switch in use in place of a light switch , which is properly I/P rated and outside zone 1 should be o/k , but light swtches I wouldn't like to install myself ,,,,unless it is a really big room ,,

 

[NickD]

Job done.

 

[shanky887614]

View attachment 24113

Job done.

there not bad, quite a few clips though

 

[telectrix]

nah. use galv conduit

 

[nickblake]

Yes , greater than 600mm is outside the zone so you can use light switches in that area as long as all circuits are protected by an RCD ,

 

[Badged01]

Always find it interesting how we shy away from electrics and water in this country yet on the continent its part of their regulations to have sockets in the bathroom!

Been trying for years to get her indoors to dry her hair while in the bath ......

 

[Darkwood]

Yes , greater than 600mm is outside the zone so you can use light switches in that area as long as all circuits are protected by an RCD ,

You picking and choosing regs here and forgetting others... You switch is required to be suitable for the environment its placed in and as the bathroom is classed as having a high humidity and steam environment then a standard switch is not suitable as they do not provide good IP rating - the steam will condense on the cold plastic .... have you not seen this happen to the mirror?

 

[Hawkmoon]

You picking and choosing regs here and forgetting others... You switch is required to be suitable for the environment its placed in and as the bathroom is classed as having a high humidity and steam environment then a standard switch is not suitable as they do not provide good IP rating - the steam will condense on the cold plastic .... have you not seen this happen to the mirror?

This ^^^^ - Wet hands on an already steamed up switch - don't sound right, does it?? - regardless of where the zones begin/end

 

[Lagentium]

No, next question!

 

[Brightspark2]

have you not seen this happen to the mirror?

He's not in long enough!...lol

 

[Redvanman]

This ^^^^ - Wet hands on an already steamed up switch - don't sound right, does it?? - regardless of where the zones begin/end

This is the reason why I put this post up after having seen one.
I know the regs states outside the zones general rules apply but I still wouldn't put a normal switch in a bathroom unless it was huge.
I can't see how you could put one 600mm away from zone 1 as stated above condensation running down the wall

 

[Engineer54]

You picking and choosing regs here and forgetting others... You switch is required to be suitable for the environment its placed in and as the bathroom is classed as having a high humidity and steam environment then a standard switch is not suitable as they do not provide good IP rating - the steam will condense on the cold plastic .... have you not seen this happen to the mirror?

Funny, but it's never been a problem in the vast majority of other countries, like the States Canada, most if not all of Europe, and just about everywhere else i ever worked or visited. More like the inherited UK's draconian rules that have always beligered UK bathroom installations.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

This ^^^^ - Wet hands on an already steamed up switch - don't sound right, does it?? - regardless of where the zones begin/end

this is it...

its a common misconception that you actually have to be in contact with exposed live parts to get a shock...

not so..

voltages can `track` across wet/damp surfaces...

 

[Aindowsimon]

With you on that one glen I remember my sister getting a shock with wet hands in her bedroom ,
adding damp condensation on face plate just asking for trouble

Like a lot of things it probably wont happen but I'd rather know it can't happen

 

[Darkwood]

Funny, but it's never been a problem in the vast majority of other countries, like the States Canada, most if not all of Europe, and just about everywhere else i ever worked or visited. More like the inherited UK's draconian rules that have always beligered UK bathroom installations.....

Maybe so but the nature of the switch means you usually don't get killed just a tickle or slam as you can't spasm clamp your hands on it till you fry, I have a plastic toothbrush holder and when I shower its full of condensation so why not a switch ...its to cover the small chance of a shock not the big picture of it rarely happens... we all know you can walk out of a bathroom with dripping wet hands when your body is at a lowered resistance and switch another switch on but in the scope of things its dry and not been ingressed with moisture while you shower.

Yes on the wider scope of things maybe draconian and extreme but the UK holds one of the lowest fatality by electric shock 'when the regs have been followed' than most other countries using the same voltage ... opinions always change when you know someone who has been killed by such situations ... 1 life is too many when it can be avoided quite easily by a simple regulation that doesn't add really any costs to a install.. Think your mind is been influenced by your location and your now slightly de-sensitised to our stricter regulations ..... I know you know your stuff ENG and hold you in respect but all i was doing was expressing a regulation.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Maybe so but the nature of the switch means you usually don't get killed just a tickle or slam as you can't spasm clamp your hands on it till you fry, I have a plastic toothbrush holder and when I shower its full of condensation so why not a switch ...its to cover the small chance of a shock not the big picture of it rarely happens... we all know you can walk out of a bathroom with dripping wet hands when your body is at a lowered resistance and switch another switch on but in the scope of things its dry and not been ingressed with moisture while you shower.

Yes on the wider scope of things maybe draconian and extreme but the UK holds one of the lowest fatality by electric shock 'when the regs have been followed' than most other countries using the same voltage ... opinions always change when you know someone who has been killed by such situations ... 1 life is too many when it can be avoided quite easily by a simple regulation that doesn't add really any costs to a install.. Think your mind is been influenced by your location and your now slightly de-sensitised to our stricter regulations ..... I know you know your stuff ENG and hold you in respect but all i was doing was expressing a regulation.

DC dark?....

 

[Darkwood]

DC dark?....

And AC .... its a myth its just DC that clamps your muscles AC works just as good but DC tends to do more damage to the body if your survive... the frequency is 50hz - your muscles can't relax and let go that quickly so still give lock out!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

And AC .... its a myth its just DC that clamps your muscles AC works just as good but DC tends to do more damage to the body if your survive... the frequency is 50hz - your muscles can't relax and let go that quickly so still give lock out!

OK..thanks for clearing that up Dark.

 

[Darkwood]

OK..thanks for clearing that up Dark.

Depends where you hear this but voltage and current are key ... in america AC is far less dangerous due to the lower voltage but over here our voltage makes it nearly as lethal, its quite possible to let go on 50hz but depends on the muscles under influence .. they will be pulsing 100times a second but DC holds no bars and even lower voltages can give permanent muscle lock so yes your correct DC is by far more dangerous but dont be complacent AC kills alot of people in this country because they can't let go ... hence the lengthy thread on the young lass that got killed holding the ladder to the loft.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Depends where you hear this but voltage and current are key ... in america AC is far less dangerous due to the lower voltage but over here our voltage makes it nearly as lethal, its quite possible to let go on 50hz but depends on the muscles under influence .. they will be pulsing 100times a second but DC holds no bars and even lower voltages can give permanent muscle lock so yes your correct DC is by far more dangerous but dont be complacent AC kills alot of people in this country because they can't let go ... hence the lengthy thread on the young lass that got killed holding the ladder to the loft.

yep...thats probably what i should have said...

i know that DC is more dicy to be dealing with..

no doubt Tony will drop in on this at some point....

 

[Engineer54]

Depends where you hear this but voltage and current are key ... in america AC is far less dangerous due to the lower voltage but over here our voltage makes it nearly as lethal, its quite possible to let go on 50hz but depends on the muscles under influence .. they will be pulsing 100times a second but DC holds no bars and even lower voltages can give permanent muscle lock so yes your correct DC is by far more dangerous but dont be complacent AC kills alot of people in this country because they can't let go ... hence the lengthy thread on the young lass that got killed holding the ladder to the loft.

Does that apply to the 240 volt washing machines/dryers you often see in American/Canadian bathrooms?? lol!

One thing i will say, is that in most other countries they do tend to have effective extraction fans, unlike the piddly things you have in the UK. (when in fact a fan is present, most UK bathrooms have no fan...)

The other thing i would mention, is that many of those other countries will have 6mA (USA/Can) or 10mA (elsewhere) RCD's for bathroom circuits. The UK for some reason, rarely make use of 10mA RCD devices...

I know what you mean though, i used to have the same opinions as many here, before working overseas....

 

[Knobhead]

this is it...

its a common misconception that you actually have to be in contact with exposed live parts to get a shock...

not so..

voltages can `track` across wet/damp surfaces...

In one of those fits of pure genius plumbers have we had a Jackson tea urn just below an old EE type SS DP 240V board. It used to fascinate me watching the magic electrickery stuff bouncing around inside it. I wasn't going to touch it!

yep...thats probably what i should have said...

i know that DC is more dicy to be dealing with..

no doubt Tony will drop in on this at some point....

I’ve worked on all sorts of DC systems. Some I was happy working on live, others I wasn’t.
We had DC control systems where I’d be quite happily be twisting cores together with my bare fingers that was 100V+ and yet I’ve had a belt off 24V-.

The DC power systems 220V, 440V, 660V were supposed to be earth free (note, supposed to be). They all had high resistance earth fault monitoring, no one trusted it.
If the monitoring indicated a fault you’ve never seen an electricians workshop empty so fast.

I was taught that after testing for dead you tapped the busbars with the back of your fingers. The theory being you couldn’t grip the busbar, never got a belt off the power systems so can’t say if that’s right or not.

 

[Engineer54]

I’ve worked on all sorts of DC systems. Some I was happy working on live, others I wasn’t.
We had DC control systems where I’d be quite happily be twisting cores together with my bare fingers that was 100V+ and yet I’ve had a belt off 24V-.

Yep, DC still has it's uses...lol!!

Most main switchboards both MV and LV will have 110V or 24V ''DC'' full wave rectified controls with at least a 72 hour battery back-up. I believe this is also the case for Network substations too. I know that the ones i've been in, all have isolated/protected battery rooms..

Alas none of this has anything to do with wall switches in bathrooms!! lol!!

 

[Had8Lives]

There is WAY too much reliance on RCDs in other parts of the world. I guess people don;t question getting a shock of ONLY 120v in the bathroom. "Hey man! That's Life!" Lol

 

[Engineer54]

There is WAY too much reliance on RCDs in other parts of the world. I guess people don;t question getting a shock of ONLY 120v in the bathroom. "Hey man! That's Life!" Lol

NOT SO!! ...If anything, the over reliance of RCD devices is in the UK, and the way BS7671 has been drafted!!

 

[Darkwood]

In one of those fits of pure genius plumbers have we had a Jackson tea urn just below an old EE type SS DP 240V board. It used to fascinate me watching the magic electrickery stuff bouncing around inside it. I wasn't going to touch it!




I’ve worked on all sorts of DC systems. Some I was happy working on live, others I wasn’t.
We had DC control systems where I’d be quite happily be twisting cores together with my bare fingers that was 100V+ and yet I’ve had a belt off 24V-.

The DC power systems 220V, 440V, 660V were supposed to be earth free (note, supposed to be). They all had high resistance earth fault monitoring, no one trusted it.
If the monitoring indicated a fault you’ve never seen an electricians workshop empty so fast.

I was taught that after testing for dead you tapped the busbars with the back of your fingers. The theory being you couldn’t grip the busbar, never got a belt off the power systems so can’t say if that’s right or not.

LOL ... I still do that religiously I don't care how many meters etc I use to cofirm power off I always tap with the back off my finger.... its worked for me once when my probe tester proved ok and lit up then showed busbars were dead .. i repeated then still get same results - tapped with back of finger and got a reet belt!.... the wire on my tester had a broken core that open circuited only when i raised it up to test the busbar but closed when checking on the proving unit in my lap!! :shocked3:

 

[Badged01]

I was taught that after testing for dead you tapped the busbars with the back of your fingers. The theory being you couldn’t grip the busbar, never got a belt off the power systems so can’t say if that’s right or not.

Good test unless you happen to be a young lad in a slightly confined space where the belt throws your hand onto the cabinet which bounces it back onto the source which throws it back onto the cabinet which bounces it ....... :sad:

Like you, I cant say for sure, but I have heard it happened to someone .....

 

[Darkwood]

Do they still teach you to do this at college or has it all become so anally PC its not taught anymore, we were openly taught to use this method after testing and in some cases if you forgot your meters lol....Oh how times change!!!

 

[Badged01]

Not something I was taught at college, maybe the 'younger' members can comment but I doubt very much whether 'live' testing with a body part would form part of any electrical curriculum!

I was shown it the hard way under 'supervision' by more learned colleagues, who eventually picked themselves up off the floor after laughing so much. But that was back in the 70's, where shall we say things were done a lot differently than today ....

 

[Risteard]

Only if it's outside the zones that is

The rest of the world does it and they aren't littered with corpses around the switch in the bathroom.

 

[Rockingit]

I was taught that after testing for dead you tapped the busbars with the back of your fingers. The theory being you couldn’t grip the busbar, never got a belt off the power systems so can’t say if that’s right or not.

I've always done that, too. Was how I was taught - after you've used a machine to tell you it's safe, guarantee it was telling you the truth with the back of a finger and the other hand in your pocket. Mind you, my old chief also just used a wet finger in a pendant as a Voltage indicator! So I still do it to this day, isolate then tap, it's just force of habit.

 

[shanky887614]

Do they still teach you to do this at college or has it all become so anally PC its not taught anymore, we were openly taught to use this method after testing and in some cases if you forgot your meters lol....Oh how times change!!!

yeah they dont teach that anymore.

 

[PEG]

Going back to the original question,i've stuck stranger things in weirder places...and have the children to prove it...it has always amused me that this issue creates such a polarised group of opinions,yet most of us happily put 100% faith in our RCD's (where fitted) every time we adjust or turn off our ubiquitous electric showering devices...Go in a cool bathroom(temperature,not fashion...) have a ten minute hot shower,isolate and whip the front off.Some are more disappointing than others...i think i will move mine to the other wall and operate it using a broomstick and a rubber-glove :lipsrsealed2:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

NOT SO!! ...If anything, the over reliance of RCD devices is in the UK, and the way BS7671 has been drafted!!

well that crap about an RCD being used to get round a dodgy Zs needs to go....